Edit: Jesus Christ, people. If you buy a $150 Thinkpad made by slave labor instead of a $1,200 MacBook made by slave labor, you’re still supporting a capitalist economy based on slave labor. We all do. We have no choice. The number of smug liberals in the comments saying “well I buy a cheap used laptop” or “well I buy coffee beans and make my own coffee” are completely missing the fucking point.
Don’t tell yourself your consumption is moral. All of us make unethical choices every day because there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Accept your shame and guilt and let it drive you to do better.
I’ve only ever seen the last panel of this, delightful.
This is really daft.
It’s possible to participate in society in such a way as to uphold our beliefs about how society ought to be.
If you want to complain about Apple’s abuse of employees, don’t buy their stuff.
If you want to abolish slavery, don’t own any slaves.
If you want to smash capitalism, buy a used thinkpad.
Sure, there are some instances where this just isn’t possible in a complete and absolute sense. For example, I despise google, have invested a lot of effort in degoogling, but there remain some google components I rely on.
However, the existence of these instances does not mean we don’t need to invest any effort in supporting the changes we want to see.
I agree, that comic is bullshit. Acknowledging that the world we live in isn’t the one we want but that we can make a garbage system less garbage is absolutely valid. There are initiatives like Right to Repair that bring us closer to our goals while also actively making the existing system suck less, so why not take the money you would have spent on Apple products and put it towards the cause instead?
Im not judging her because of any hypocrisy. Im judging her because she’s a mac user.
maybe its got linux ?
Then they would be a femboy with striped socks, and drinking a home made coffee in their basement
low key, this comment has done more to make me want to try linux than like 95% of the comments here advocating in favor of it. GJ.
If you ever decide to open that door, install Ventoy on a USB stick and then copy a few different Linux distributions’ ISOs onto said stick. You can try them all out easily and without risk that way, it’s pretty cool.
I’ll probably take this advice but I was probably also just gonna go with linux mint
Also a product isn’t a bad product, just because it is produced under capitalism. A computers ability to compute does not depend on its mode of production.
“It’s okay to resist capitalism on an iPhone. The feudal lord who owned the pitchforks the peasants killed him with probably observed the irony too.” -Ben Stiller
Nope sorry, there are many much less capitalistically aggressive alternatives to starbucks and apple. Slaves on the other hand literally (and not figuratively as in here) needed to keep slaving to stay alive. I would seriously feel cramps in my stomach if I walked into a starbucks with that sticker.
All your options are “capitalistically aggressive”. It’s a sign of immaturity to me that people think they’re above it all while still being totally and utterly dependent on capitalist economics. Acting like buying a fair phone makes you better than others is just laughable. It’s a drop in the bucket compared to all your other unavoidable contributions to capitalists.
Not to mention that many of these “better” options are only available to people with money, which makes the entire claim even more ironic. Many of us going this “alternate” less aggressive route can only do so because we benefit from inequality in the first place.
Your argument in no way refutes the point the comic makes.
nope, there is for instance a ton of difference between someone who buys a used phone and uses it for 5 years vs someone who buys a new phone each time a new model comes out. Similarly there is a difference to how much you enable or enhance this system when you make conscious choices about which brands to use (ones that are a part of it or ones that actively redefine and make things worse).
I would agree however that it really makes no sense to of course try to infer all of these from a single photo, maybe this person is super anti consumerism in all other aspects, maybe she is repairing someone else’s computer etc. Nevertheless apple is the last brand you should be using if you want to put a smash capitalism sticker on your laptop, you can at least show the will to have your os open source. Otherwise it is like going to a steak house to eat steak with a “stop animal slaughter” shirt. It is the exact definition for me of acting like you are above it all without showing the effort to be.
apple and Starbucks are capitalists. Using their products and services is not “capitalism” but “consumerism”
spending a wage you earned is the opposite of capitalism
Sure, but it’s the fact that out of any other choice to pick, she chose to still give her money to the most aggressively capitalist companies. You can say it’s consumerism, but what point is she even making then? She sat down at a Starbucks to get her overpriced coffee, on a $1200 Macbook with a sticker on it that says “SMASH CAPITALISM”, it’s blatantly hyprocritcal.
maybe she’s there with a gift card she got given and a laptop that was also a gift?
Also my work computer is a Mac, now, and was also when I worked for a print and design company years ago.
maybe she’s an artist and Macs are often considered de rigueur for image and movie editing
maybe she’s not very technical, grew up using a Mac and is sticking to what she knows, who are we to criticise someone for not being skilled at tech, when we are not skilled at javelin throwing, or glass blowing or pointilism or whatever.
There are alternatives out there. That’s all. If you want to say ‘SMASH CAPITALISM’, then don’t pick the most garbage possible way to make your point. At the end of the day, your still buying/using them, especially from the most aggressively capitalist companies such as Apple and Starbucks. You could always sell off the laptop and gift card and support your local businesses instead. There are still local computer shops out there that sell off used hardware.
Also, I mean, you don’t even need to be an expert to use Linux, it’s rather simple actually, especially with AI at our fingertips. It’s just the fact that they keep supporting the exact thing they despise, hence why it looks hypocritical. Do your part and stick to what you preach. It’s like a person that eats at a all-meat resturaunt with a t-shirt on that says “Vegan”.
used hardware
how do we know it’s not used? I’m just saying we’re putting a lot into this image. Not done a massive deep dive but off the top of my head Apple isn’t really that much worse than Samsung, Sony, NVIDIA, ASUS… Maybe there’s a few percentage points in it - but by any metric: revenue, employee corps, emissions, corruption, e-waste, personal politics or private lives of key figures… are they vastly different?
You dont have to be an expert to use Linux
Ehhhhh. I think you’re vastly over estimating how good people are at tech. Even young people. I reflect on trying to teach my grandmother how to text. Probably around 2004? She could use a VHS and DVD player, land line phone with caller ID, a microwave, set the time on the oven - but pressing keys on a phone to spell was beyond her and she got really frustrated. I also reflect on how someone I know in their early 30s was really annoyed by some old printer software they had from a printer they don’t own any more, and I said “why don’t you just uninstall it” and they didn’t know how.
The average user on lemmy can probably write a Hello world in some language, or at least create <html><head><title>Hello world</title></head><body>Hello world</body></html> … but I don’t know if the average person on the street can.
The average person on the street probably can’t install windows from scratch let alone dual boot Linux, let alone from a Mac OS.
I dont mean that to be snooty, I mean it to highlight you are taking a massive leap of faith in how good at computers most people are.
Sure you’re right. But, I’m still going to take my chances and say that she probably spent her own money lol
I mean not exactly. I am not sayin the person in the photo is but excessive consumerism is what capitalism needs to stand on.
How’s Lenovo’s sustainability versus Apple’s?
if it has linux installed, then much better at least from a software standpoint
Yep used thinkpad and some kind of Linux sounds more like it.
Buying a used Thinkpad doesn’t change the fact that it was made by slave labor. It might make you feel better to buy one, but it changes absolutely nothing. You still bought an item made in part by slaves or near-slaves. And you’re keeping the market alive for that to continue.
If you buy used, the manufacturer makes zero profit. It’s a pretty substantial difference ethically.
You are of course giving money to someone who likely has already purchased another laptop, indirectly supporting their consumerism, but I mean it’s still one less new laptop and one less landfill item, it’s definitely among the lesser evils.
Apple is a dumb choice always, but theres no fucking replacement for starbucks and you cannot convince me otherwise.
I would think the exact opposite. Apple’s monopoly practices (you notice they just got mega sued by the USG for antitrust violations, right?) mean if you want to effectively collaborate with people inside the Apple ecosystem you need to use Apple products.
On the other hand, Starbucks is easily replaceable, unless you’re in some sort of food desert urban wasteland, there are local coffee shops everywhere.
Where even is the Starbucks in the photo?
Damn you capitalism for forcing me to buy a mac!
I’m no Apple fan but I’m scratching my head at this comment. Would any other brand of laptop be “less capitalist” somehow ? Just because they are less overpriced than macs ?
Apple is by far the most monopolistic tech company you can choose from.
But… While capitalism naturally leads to monopolies, capitalism can’t function under monopolies, so I guess supporting the most monopolistic company is going against capitalism…
But Apple is one of the good embodiment of capitalism. It is a symbol of excessive consumption, surveillance for profit, and consumer-right abuse.
That being said, is not like most popular alternatives are any better. If people don’t have time to switch to or even heard about better alternatives (upgradeable open hardware running an open community-driven OS), I guess it is not their fault.
Starbucks, however, has many alternatives (at least in the U.S.) that doesn’t involve as much union busting and harmful labor practices.
is not like most popular alternatives are any better
Not in the ways you mentioned. Apple is the most profitable of them all though (due to their horrendous prices, duh), which doesn’t fit an anti-capitalist attitude. I guess, it could be a second hand laptop but they are still supporting that ecosystem.
I also get annoyed when people criticize when wealthy people support leftist causes. Like, yeah, Bernie Sanders (or whoever) has a lot of money, so the fact that he isn’t blinded to injustice by his own privilege is a good thing.
I forget who said it, but…
“When I was poor and talked about greed and poverty, they said I was jealous, now that I’m rich and talk about greed and poverty, they call me a hypocrite… I’m starting to think they just don’t want to talk about it.”
Russel Brand
Unfortunately he has gone full conspiracy grifter at this point, but he does have a way with words and he has used it to say some good things in the past.
The difference is Bernie doesn’t wear a large diamond encrusted gold necklace spelling out “Socialism” in large letters.
A Macbook and Starbucks are fashion statements.
Just needs the Che shirt for that chef’s kiss
spoiler
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It’s because they aren’t using a used ThinkPad
Asus > Lenovo
They’re very similar, but you get to support Taiwan with Asus. You don’t have a pointing stick, though; if that’s something you care about. The hardware is also similar, but Lenovo generally has better cases/ outershells, but Asus also outperforms them on price point and internal hardware and software.
Not really supporting either business by buying a used laptop tho?
When people make memes about you using it, you’re supporting the company with good exposure. They should be grateful.
… or maybe she thought it’s an edgy sticker and fits her style?
Idk. But if you really were serious about smashing capitalism, it’s kinda irrelevant how much stuff you buy, there’s a lot of groundwork to be done, organizing and educating. For all we know, that may be what she’s doing in that photo.
If she dressed in rags, owned nothing and was homeless, I fail to see how that would accomplish anything more.
Although I prefer to support local businesses, not a fan of massive corporate chains. My city has dozens of local coffee shops that serve fair trade products. I can walk to a half dozen of them, whether or not I bring my ancient 2011 laptop. But I do love my principles being questioned by smug internet randos so 🖕
Yeah, BS. If you choose to buy an apple product, new or used, you are still supporting capitalism even if in name only. The product is almost synonymous with pursuing a social cache rather than just useful and mundane functionality.
If you buy any product, you are supporting Capitalism. There’s very few ways to not support Capitalism at all, especially with regards to tech.
Macs naturally can not be stolen or obtain second hand as a gift or in some other sort of deal.
Huh? You can absolutely change mac ownership if the current associated account holder is involved. It’s a very simple process.
Now, if you need to remove an activation lock without the involvement of the registered account holder, it’s a huge pain in the ass (had to go through this with a work laptop a year ago).
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Oh, I didn’t know you needed apple products, the most monopolistic tech company to exist, to survive. That explains why their fans are so rabbid. I better switch from Linux otherwise I’ll die.
“we live in a society”.
People are pressured to align with social norms, so the word “survival” in this case is used very expansively. It means not only to continue to exist, but to continue to exist in the social strata you have managed to achieve. ANY such strata comes with standards of quality, and pressures to make choices that align with the group. There are always outliers who cross strata and reject certain things, but that does not mean all of us don’t abide in certain cases.
So no, you don’t need a Mac, but you may receive pressure from your social group, and may value conformity as a part of your “social survival”
While I accept your argument, you’re either a juvenile, or an extremely weak willed person to buy a particular brand because your “friends” pressured you to be more like them.
What a rude and uncivil comment.
I’m not discussing “friends” I’m discussing nearly every element of public adult life.
You are not free from social pressures the same way no one is immune from propaganda.
I was not referring to you personally. I was generalizing. My comment was not rude. You simply perceived it as rude.
I would ask you to speak for yourself. You do not speak for all of society. Perhaps one isn’t free from potentially being the recipient of attempted social pressure, but one is certainly free to ignore it. I’ve been doing it for most of my adult life. I do what I feel is logical. Not what others would have me do.
You’re missing the point. There’s so many pressures you don’t even perceive. Your whole perception of what’s appropriate is not free from influence.
This is an entirely subjective argument. I’ll accept this as your opinion, and perhaps your personal experience, and leave it at that.
This is a heavily studied topic in mental health, various humanities disciplines, career coaching, etc. I’m not inventing this concept.
Paying $7 for very shitty coffee is still a strange decision to me, but I understand
Different people like different shit. Live and let live.
Pretending you forced to and comparing it to slavery is even stranger
Let me know when someone dies without Starbucks. I have all life, so take your time.
