I know from actual experience (as I have been all three, renter, homeowner, and property manager/landlord) I still prefer renting in many cases. there is a lot of value in renting, including, the ability to be transient, and the lack of attention or care that one needs to keep
I think you are assuming that a landlord just calling a guy is the same as you just calling a guy, and sometimes it is, but when I rent, the value is that I don’t need to care, at all, I just send a text message to the same guy I always send a message to and they come in fix it while I’m at work, and it’s done. I don’t need to make insurance claims, I don’t need to sus out 15 different contractors to get the best price, I don’t need to do the actual work myself, etc
Come back after you’ve owned that duplex for a decade (you evil selfish horrible property owner, as you describe them) and you need to replace the roof and the HVAC system and you will see that it isn’t always the same scenario. Yea fun little house projects are great, and you get to hang pictures on the wall or whatever, but that isn’t valuable to everyone.
Do you really think homelessness issues would be solved by getting rid of the ability to rent property? Have you ever actually worked with homeless people before? In many cases, homeless people don’t want or need to own a house, they want the ability to be transient, to move to where work is, to incrementally improve. A physical house is a burden, it requires maintenance and attention that someone getting on their feet doesn’t necessarily have the time or energy for. Short term living is essential for equitability. Forcing everyone into ownership schemes means forcing people into rigid structures that don’t allow growth. I’ve moved from state to state to state, if I had to buy and sell houses Everytime I moved somewhere I would have lost more money than renting, thanks to economic crashes, closing costs, interest, etc.
I think the problem you have, seems to be extortion in a housing market, driven by large commercial interests, which is pretty different conceptually from the idea of short term leasing of a managed property as a whole.
Missing the point and focusing on level of effort instead of looking at the abstract value proposition. I don’t care how much effort something is for someone else if I’m paying them to do the thing, it’s because I find value in it. The same way that doing an oil change is super easy for a mechanic, but I don’t want to do it so I pay someone else. Or making. Sandwich, or whatever.
Unfair prices are not intrinsic to the concept. And I would wager your rage should likely be directed towards unchecked capitalism.
I don’t see an effective system that has private ownership of property and no short term living schemes. I can only see that working with full state intervention, supplying housing for people as they need, which is such a fundamental shift in economic strategy that it isn’t worth discussing. Unless your argument is for communism, in which case, sure, but any landlord discussion is basically useless as the core structure of ownership changes and responsibility changes.
But I dunno, you also seem to be a hypocritical property owner yourself, so i don’t really get your position overall.
In fact I’d say you are the worst kind of property owner. You are using someone else to cover your mortgage, someone you know personally, and so instead of just co-owning the property, you rent to them? Why do you get the equity gains? Why are they paying your mortgage interest, helping your credit, etc.
You have the same energy as ‘the only moral abortion, is my abortion’. Do you think you get a pass on subletting property because you feel you have a morally superior position? Do you think you are not still extracting value? If they are not owners of the property, then they are paying you for the privilege of living in your property, regardless of promises you may make to them or even if you pay them back, you were able to extract time value of money out of them. You are the person you are accusing me of being. But if you think they are getting value from the scenario, than I really have to question your stance as a whole, how do you reconcile this?
Why don’t you sell the other half of the property to the people you think should rightfully own it or refi and add them to the mortgage? If you have an excuse, then maybe you should self reflect on your stance, since there are obviously scenarios, where there is some value in being a landlord.
Hey, guess what, you don’t know me or my situation either. Like how you were claiming I’ve never worked with the homeless when hey, guess what, I’ve been homeless. Thrice.
And the alleged hypocrisy of me renting to them? It was their idea. If anything you should understand their position since you love renting so much.
As for Co ownership, they are being put on my will, so if I croak it’s theirs. They know this and are fine with it. I’m taking on the debt instead of them that way if shit goes south I’m the one on the hook, not them.
As for selling it to them, at this point they would be paying way more for it because there was a huge hike in property values and taxes around here so they would probably still get screwed anyway.
And if there was a huge shift in the economic structure of my company and eliminating landlords as a function was a possibility, I’d fight for that. I don’t want to be a landlord or anything, I just want a place to live and this setup was the best for everyone and again, their idea.
As for the accusations, I didn’t accuse you of being a landlord leech or whatever, I said that if you’re cool with this system that hurts people because it’s convenient for you, you’re an asshole. Which I’m pretty sure you are since you’re giving a whole “but it’s easy for meeeee” selfish attitude towards the whole landlord debate.
So let me ask you this, what would your ideal housing system look like?
Firstly you don’t know who I am, or my situation.
I know from actual experience (as I have been all three, renter, homeowner, and property manager/landlord) I still prefer renting in many cases. there is a lot of value in renting, including, the ability to be transient, and the lack of attention or care that one needs to keep
I think you are assuming that a landlord just calling a guy is the same as you just calling a guy, and sometimes it is, but when I rent, the value is that I don’t need to care, at all, I just send a text message to the same guy I always send a message to and they come in fix it while I’m at work, and it’s done. I don’t need to make insurance claims, I don’t need to sus out 15 different contractors to get the best price, I don’t need to do the actual work myself, etc
Come back after you’ve owned that duplex for a decade (you evil selfish horrible property owner, as you describe them) and you need to replace the roof and the HVAC system and you will see that it isn’t always the same scenario. Yea fun little house projects are great, and you get to hang pictures on the wall or whatever, but that isn’t valuable to everyone.
Do you really think homelessness issues would be solved by getting rid of the ability to rent property? Have you ever actually worked with homeless people before? In many cases, homeless people don’t want or need to own a house, they want the ability to be transient, to move to where work is, to incrementally improve. A physical house is a burden, it requires maintenance and attention that someone getting on their feet doesn’t necessarily have the time or energy for. Short term living is essential for equitability. Forcing everyone into ownership schemes means forcing people into rigid structures that don’t allow growth. I’ve moved from state to state to state, if I had to buy and sell houses Everytime I moved somewhere I would have lost more money than renting, thanks to economic crashes, closing costs, interest, etc.
I think the problem you have, seems to be extortion in a housing market, driven by large commercial interests, which is pretty different conceptually from the idea of short term leasing of a managed property as a whole. Missing the point and focusing on level of effort instead of looking at the abstract value proposition. I don’t care how much effort something is for someone else if I’m paying them to do the thing, it’s because I find value in it. The same way that doing an oil change is super easy for a mechanic, but I don’t want to do it so I pay someone else. Or making. Sandwich, or whatever.
Unfair prices are not intrinsic to the concept. And I would wager your rage should likely be directed towards unchecked capitalism.
I don’t see an effective system that has private ownership of property and no short term living schemes. I can only see that working with full state intervention, supplying housing for people as they need, which is such a fundamental shift in economic strategy that it isn’t worth discussing. Unless your argument is for communism, in which case, sure, but any landlord discussion is basically useless as the core structure of ownership changes and responsibility changes.
But I dunno, you also seem to be a hypocritical property owner yourself, so i don’t really get your position overall.
In fact I’d say you are the worst kind of property owner. You are using someone else to cover your mortgage, someone you know personally, and so instead of just co-owning the property, you rent to them? Why do you get the equity gains? Why are they paying your mortgage interest, helping your credit, etc.
You have the same energy as ‘the only moral abortion, is my abortion’. Do you think you get a pass on subletting property because you feel you have a morally superior position? Do you think you are not still extracting value? If they are not owners of the property, then they are paying you for the privilege of living in your property, regardless of promises you may make to them or even if you pay them back, you were able to extract time value of money out of them. You are the person you are accusing me of being. But if you think they are getting value from the scenario, than I really have to question your stance as a whole, how do you reconcile this?
Why don’t you sell the other half of the property to the people you think should rightfully own it or refi and add them to the mortgage? If you have an excuse, then maybe you should self reflect on your stance, since there are obviously scenarios, where there is some value in being a landlord.
Hey, guess what, you don’t know me or my situation either. Like how you were claiming I’ve never worked with the homeless when hey, guess what, I’ve been homeless. Thrice.
And the alleged hypocrisy of me renting to them? It was their idea. If anything you should understand their position since you love renting so much.
As for Co ownership, they are being put on my will, so if I croak it’s theirs. They know this and are fine with it. I’m taking on the debt instead of them that way if shit goes south I’m the one on the hook, not them.
As for selling it to them, at this point they would be paying way more for it because there was a huge hike in property values and taxes around here so they would probably still get screwed anyway.
And if there was a huge shift in the economic structure of my company and eliminating landlords as a function was a possibility, I’d fight for that. I don’t want to be a landlord or anything, I just want a place to live and this setup was the best for everyone and again, their idea.
As for the accusations, I didn’t accuse you of being a landlord leech or whatever, I said that if you’re cool with this system that hurts people because it’s convenient for you, you’re an asshole. Which I’m pretty sure you are since you’re giving a whole “but it’s easy for meeeee” selfish attitude towards the whole landlord debate.
So let me ask you this, what would your ideal housing system look like?