So next week my 2 yo’s sons kindergarten are planning a zoo trip. Apparently they will be talking about it before and after. It costs the kids nothing and the teachers tickets are coming out of a collective fund we already paid money into. My wife really wants him to go, she grew up not being able to go to a lot of school trips due to growing up in foster care/neglect and really fears him getting ostracized. She says she knows what it was like to not go and it really comes close to her trauma so its not really a subject I can argue against. The teachers obviously recommend going, so I’m all alone in saying no. I would stay home, perhaps prepare our own outing and look into talking about animal liberation but I feel so alone in it. My wife gave me the option to veto the trip even though she really wants him to go.

There really is not much more to argue between us too, my focus is animal liberation, hers is how not partaking in some activities alienates one from society. And in a society based on animal oppression a lot of activities require some form of animal oppression. I don’t know how this contradiction is going to resolve and it’s making me very anxious.

How do you cope with the feeling of loneliness? Do you have good kid friendly material relating to animal liberation? What could be a good alternative for us that day? What if I just gave in? I can’t do this for every zoo/farm outing anyway.

  • sanity_is_maddening@lemm.eeEnglish
    0·
    16 days ago

    If I may make a suggestion… You should go on the trip. And be the alternative guide that explains the reasons why the animals shouldn’t be kept there for the sake of human leisure and entertainment. Be compassionate. To the animals there as well, as they can’t be rewilded either. And there’s also ways of having ethical educational zoo like trips. Plenty of facilities out there doing work like this. Animals can be visited as they are being rehabilitated to be released back. And the release day is far more beautiful and incredible than what you can find at a zoo. There’s also centers for endangered species that are helping them getting their numbers back up. Offer them as alternatives for next time. The people there are also much more educated and educational. You can’t function in the world if you don’t provide context and then offer alternatives. Don’t mention Veganism. There’s too much prejudice to that word. And for a pre-school context, that can even become more overcharged with other parents and educators. Mention animal wellfare and how countries have banned Bullfighting and Circus Acts with animals and explain why. And why zoos and Aquarius should be next on the the list.

    I always find humour in talking to people who became Vegan during the 2016/2019 boom, they somehow think the world is going to go Vegan and should be Now!!! Me?.. this middle aged fart that has been on this path for almost 20 years now finds some solace that there’s more people talking about it. Slavery is illegal now, but companies, human traffickers and sociopaths still find illegal ways of doing it. Women have more rights now - well, in some places not even that- but even where they do have more rights, domestic violance is still a common place unfortunately. And racism seems to be in rampant fashion these days. All this to say, the road ahead isn’t a straight line, and that the point of intrinsic value that your trying to achieve is to educate a child on why this should matter, regardless of where one is. The first step is to ask if this child in question wants to go. Teaching liberation through an act of forbidding seems at odds with itself. Even to a 2 year old. It builds weird conflicting mnemonics. The path to better this world is never reached by mimicking patterns of tiranny, as it initiates it’s own cicle of resistance. But make no mistake, this path you and I share is one of resistance, one initiated by the the tiranny of treating sentience as comodity. The ownership over someone. Don’t make that same mistake with the child you parent. Whomever that tiny 2 year old person is, doesn’t belong to you or anyone. You are there to educate and guide. And if you’re doing a decent enough job, you’re gonna end up educated and guided along the way in return. But I get your exhaustion, I really do. You just have to remember it comes with the territory. It’s a resistance, not a winning parade. That’s what tyrants like to throw. And remind yourself even more often of this… that if your journey is long and weary, the one of your child’s has just begun.

    I’m running long here, but you’re the one who approached strangers online for advice. Very personal advice as well. But word of advice? don’t. Asking strangers for what their thoughts are on your relationships with your partner and child… if it sounds weird to do it in the real world it’s weird to do it in the digital one too. I know veganism feels isolating and you’re just reaching for a support group, and that is why I gave you such a long and detailed answer. I hear you. I get your frustration. Oh, how I really do. But this is a slippery slope for terrible outcomes. You’re out to get some possible terrible or toxic influence from people who have no stake in the matter. Not to mention, your partner might feel betrayed to read your post if you didn’t disclose your decision to ask “Lemmy Vegans” what they think of what are obviously very personal things to both of you. I’m not scolding you, I’m just being considerative of your context.

    Sum it all up to this… You used to just be Vegan. Now, you have to parent with a belief system that the world has not caught up to yet or never will. It’s up to you how well you handle that now.