Moral judgements about individual choices and behavior are not necessary here. The fact is that the behavior of problem drivers, however it came to occur, threatens public safety and must be discouraged if we want to protect the lives of innocent people. I will readily admit that it is a moral judgement that public safety is more important that the convenience of a relative few, you’ve got me there.
I suppose it’s not ideal that discouraging dangerous driving has to take the form of punishment but I’m not sure how else this important goal could be accomplished. Is there anywhere in the world that has successfully addressed this problem using other methods? For better or for worse people respond to these incentives, and in the absence of better alternatives we have to accept this reality if we want government to be effective.
It’s not ideal that wealthier people are discouraged less by monetary fines, but the province of Ontario does also impose non-monetary demerit points that will eventually lead to license suspension regardless of the ability to pay.
I don’t expect you to take my word or anyone else’s for this, feel free to look up a TTC system map and review some of the schedules if you want to have a better idea of just how much coverage the TTC provides in Toronto, all with prices much lower than the total cost of ownership of a private vehicle.
Is there anywhere in the world that has successfully addressed this problem using other methods?
Yes, Not Just Bikes on YouTube has done videos on some. Other mentions are the Autobahn, but that’s a special case which is also predicated by the structure of the road system. and Paris has been expanding its efforts to retro fit roads in certain areas into green spaces and pedestrian/cycling infrastructure, which effectively removes speed limits. Not to mention all the eras of industrial society before the personal car became the dominant model of transportation but I get that Pandora’s Box has been opened and that evil ain’t going back in any time soon but I do fundamentally believe it should be a goal of getting back to.
I’m not saying speed limits are completely useless but you have to first take in the material conditions of the road and understand people are going to drive at the speed that is most comfortable to them. That’s just how humans generally are. That’s why I mentioned that most speeding is simply an absent minded mistake. Paying strict attention to the speedometer slipped their attention among the many other things you need to keep observant of while driving or just simply were pulled into complacency by a boring, routine drive
It just isn’t an effective method of trying to force people to drive at an arbitrarily predetermined speed even if the road conditions are safe to do so. Also, due to the systemic structures which dictate the overarching experience that I personally find unjust, I fundamentally oppose a political entity having the hierarchical authority to take away someone’s means of being able to travel or imposing financial penalties but that’s getting into much deeper politics than I care to get engaged with. I’m too tired for that right now
Moral judgements about individual choices and behavior are not necessary here. The fact is that the behavior of problem drivers, however it came to occur, threatens public safety and must be discouraged if we want to protect the lives of innocent people. I will readily admit that it is a moral judgement that public safety is more important that the convenience of a relative few, you’ve got me there.
I suppose it’s not ideal that discouraging dangerous driving has to take the form of punishment but I’m not sure how else this important goal could be accomplished. Is there anywhere in the world that has successfully addressed this problem using other methods? For better or for worse people respond to these incentives, and in the absence of better alternatives we have to accept this reality if we want government to be effective.
It’s not ideal that wealthier people are discouraged less by monetary fines, but the province of Ontario does also impose non-monetary demerit points that will eventually lead to license suspension regardless of the ability to pay.
I don’t expect you to take my word or anyone else’s for this, feel free to look up a TTC system map and review some of the schedules if you want to have a better idea of just how much coverage the TTC provides in Toronto, all with prices much lower than the total cost of ownership of a private vehicle.
Yes, Not Just Bikes on YouTube has done videos on some. Other mentions are the Autobahn, but that’s a special case which is also predicated by the structure of the road system. and Paris has been expanding its efforts to retro fit roads in certain areas into green spaces and pedestrian/cycling infrastructure, which effectively removes speed limits. Not to mention all the eras of industrial society before the personal car became the dominant model of transportation but I get that Pandora’s Box has been opened and that evil ain’t going back in any time soon but I do fundamentally believe it should be a goal of getting back to.
I’m not saying speed limits are completely useless but you have to first take in the material conditions of the road and understand people are going to drive at the speed that is most comfortable to them. That’s just how humans generally are. That’s why I mentioned that most speeding is simply an absent minded mistake. Paying strict attention to the speedometer slipped their attention among the many other things you need to keep observant of while driving or just simply were pulled into complacency by a boring, routine drive
It just isn’t an effective method of trying to force people to drive at an arbitrarily predetermined speed even if the road conditions are safe to do so. Also, due to the systemic structures which dictate the overarching experience that I personally find unjust, I fundamentally oppose a political entity having the hierarchical authority to take away someone’s means of being able to travel or imposing financial penalties but that’s getting into much deeper politics than I care to get engaged with. I’m too tired for that right now