Blue parties do not make collective action easier. In any instance where there has been genuine risk, both parties take the mask off. This has happened throughout history, from the older CPUSA (before it became revisionist), to the Black Panther Party, to the Civil Rights movement, and so forth. The DNC is a pressure valve, when that doesn’t work they take the mask off just as quickly.
Secondly, you didn’t at all explain why grassroots funded candidates can take over the DNC. The DNC is set up to begin with as a bourgeois party, its continued existence comes from satisfying the bourgeoisie. It cannot be taken over, either the party will pressure or expell radicals or the bourgeoisie will front its own other parties, even relying purely on the GOP.
As for hating when people talk about revolution without organizing, that doesn’t do anything at all for the logic of the arguments at hand. If someone thinks the solution to climate change is praying for it to go away, and someone else points out the fundamental issues tied to capitalism and overconsumption, that doesn’t mean the person praying has a leg up for taking action. If the action doesn’t work, it doesn’t work.
Finally, again, you dodged the matter of imperialism. Do you just think it doesn’t matter, or do you think we can fundamentally pivot away from it without revolution? What does that look like in practice, in your eyes?
My friend, you seem to be misunderstanding what I have been saying.
You keep on talking in absolutes. I am talking about chances. If it is 0.00001% safer/easier to perform collective action under a blue party, it is still easier/safer.
The primary message I am trying to get across is to use the system that is currently implemented in this country to create an opportunity for change.
Discouraging people from voting or encouraging people to vote for a party that has no chance is doing damage to both of our agendas.
Correct me if I am wrong, but your position is to perform a full correction of the system. I wish you the best of luck with that and if you succeed, I will celebrate.
We can work both inside and outside the system to create change.
On the topic of Imperialism, yes, I do believe America is an Imperial country and I think it is bad.
I gave several examples of bipartisan effort to crush left-opposition, then you argue for entryism on the basis of the DNC being 0.00001% better (with no evidence, I might add). This is just wrong, the DNC lets the GOP do whatever it wants to, and works hand-in-hand when it genuinely gets dangerous. The primary rebuttal to your strategy of reformism is that we cannot use the political tools created by and for the bourgeoisie to retain their power in order to flip it on them.
What’s necessary is revolutionary party building, which requires a combination of direct action, activism, engaging in the political system as its own unit, and showing just how incapable the system is of getting the working class what it needs. Not working with the system, legitimizing and relying on it.
Correct me if I am wrong, but your position is to perform a full correction of the system.
Capitalism cannot be corrected. What needs to happen is socialism, we need to move beyond private ownership as the principle aspect of the economy into one where public ownership is. If public ownership becomes the basis of the economy, the bourgeoisie loses its dictatorial control, and imperialism no longer becomes a necessity to keep the dumpster fire of capitalism burning.
We can work both inside and outside the system to create change.
The extent to which we can work within the system is driven by our ability to front worker parties like PSL that show a legitimate alternative, not by treating the DNC as a representative of proletarian interests. It cannot be unless forced through outside pressure.
On the topic of Imperialism, yes, I do believe America is an Imperial county and I think it is bad.
Great, so you understand that in order to end imperialism, we need to move beyond capitalism and into socialism, which requires revolution.
The working class should certainly work alongside reformists, but shouldn’t let our strategy be taken by it, as reformism can never work to begin with and is usually wasted effort. It’s more effective to directly organize.
Blue parties do not make collective action easier. In any instance where there has been genuine risk, both parties take the mask off. This has happened throughout history, from the older CPUSA (before it became revisionist), to the Black Panther Party, to the Civil Rights movement, and so forth. The DNC is a pressure valve, when that doesn’t work they take the mask off just as quickly.
Secondly, you didn’t at all explain why grassroots funded candidates can take over the DNC. The DNC is set up to begin with as a bourgeois party, its continued existence comes from satisfying the bourgeoisie. It cannot be taken over, either the party will pressure or expell radicals or the bourgeoisie will front its own other parties, even relying purely on the GOP.
As for hating when people talk about revolution without organizing, that doesn’t do anything at all for the logic of the arguments at hand. If someone thinks the solution to climate change is praying for it to go away, and someone else points out the fundamental issues tied to capitalism and overconsumption, that doesn’t mean the person praying has a leg up for taking action. If the action doesn’t work, it doesn’t work.
Finally, again, you dodged the matter of imperialism. Do you just think it doesn’t matter, or do you think we can fundamentally pivot away from it without revolution? What does that look like in practice, in your eyes?
My friend, you seem to be misunderstanding what I have been saying.
You keep on talking in absolutes. I am talking about chances. If it is 0.00001% safer/easier to perform collective action under a blue party, it is still easier/safer.
The primary message I am trying to get across is to use the system that is currently implemented in this country to create an opportunity for change.
Discouraging people from voting or encouraging people to vote for a party that has no chance is doing damage to both of our agendas.
Correct me if I am wrong, but your position is to perform a full correction of the system. I wish you the best of luck with that and if you succeed, I will celebrate.
We can work both inside and outside the system to create change.
On the topic of Imperialism, yes, I do believe America is an Imperial country and I think it is bad.
I gave several examples of bipartisan effort to crush left-opposition, then you argue for entryism on the basis of the DNC being 0.00001% better (with no evidence, I might add). This is just wrong, the DNC lets the GOP do whatever it wants to, and works hand-in-hand when it genuinely gets dangerous. The primary rebuttal to your strategy of reformism is that we cannot use the political tools created by and for the bourgeoisie to retain their power in order to flip it on them.
What’s necessary is revolutionary party building, which requires a combination of direct action, activism, engaging in the political system as its own unit, and showing just how incapable the system is of getting the working class what it needs. Not working with the system, legitimizing and relying on it.
Capitalism cannot be corrected. What needs to happen is socialism, we need to move beyond private ownership as the principle aspect of the economy into one where public ownership is. If public ownership becomes the basis of the economy, the bourgeoisie loses its dictatorial control, and imperialism no longer becomes a necessity to keep the dumpster fire of capitalism burning.
The extent to which we can work within the system is driven by our ability to front worker parties like PSL that show a legitimate alternative, not by treating the DNC as a representative of proletarian interests. It cannot be unless forced through outside pressure.
Great, so you understand that in order to end imperialism, we need to move beyond capitalism and into socialism, which requires revolution.
If you truly believe that you cannot work alongside the people who are working inside the system to change America, I think we are done here.
I hope you are successful in creating the change you are talking about.
The working class should certainly work alongside reformists, but shouldn’t let our strategy be taken by it, as reformism can never work to begin with and is usually wasted effort. It’s more effective to directly organize.