So you think the Soviets should’ve let the Nazis take Poland, got it. Guess you think the Holocaust wasn’t that bad after all? I would hope not, but the direct consequence of the Soviets waiting any longer than they did (17 days, Britain and France declared war after 2 but did jack shit) would be more Holocaust.
As for Katyn, no, this isn’t conspiracy theory. The basic facts of the execution method being the same, Goebbels reporting on it, and the materials being Nazi-made all point to Nazi involvement. Anti-communist organizations and governments agreeing with Goebbels despite the evidence doesn’t mean it’s a conspiracy theory:
“Of 225 shells found in this grave, 205 are the German 1941 “Hasag” type, 17 are the German 1941 “Dürlach” type, 2 are of the unmarked 1930s Soviet type; and one is marked “B 1906.” Hence 98.67% of the shells are of 1941 German manufacture.”
The roots of tying the Soviets to Katyn lie in trying to push Holocaust trivialization by making the Soviets out to be as “bad as the Nazis,” thereby uplifting the Nazis and demonizing the Soviets.
So you think the Soviets should’ve let the Nazis take Poland, got it.
I’ve been arguing for means to prevent invasion (from either side) from the beginning.
As for Katyn, no, this isn’t conspiracy theory.
I mean according to the field of researchers, the relevant governments (even the one responsible for it), it very much is. USSR admitted to it, the legal successor state admitted to it, lot of the damning documents have been declassified… It’s dead, Jim.
Tbh it would be a conspiracy theory in either case since you think there’s a conspiracy to hide the truth.
You list no means that the Soviets didn’t already try. You’re effectively wishing for magic.
Back to Katyn, you have no explanation for why the bullets were German and produced in 1941, why the rope was German, the method Nazi, and the originator of the story Goebbels. There’s mountains of evidence against the documents listed as “proof” of Soviet guilt:
The mistakes and inconsistencies in this letter are many. To start, the letter is “Top Secret”. Standard procedure for a “Top Secret” letter were to write on the letter the name of the person who typed it, the names of all the persons who have seen the document, the names of all persons to whom this letter is to be sent, the number of copies made of this letter, the carbon paper used to make a copy of it and finally the tape of the typewriter used to make this paper. For the “Beria document”, none of these exist. Without these precautions, it is not a “Top Secret” letter. The forger of this document either was not aware of the requirements of a “Top Secret” paper, or such requirements could not be forged by them. Either way, this paper immediately looses its value, and furthermore shows it is a forgery.
But the mistakes do not stop here. The signatures of the members of the Politburo go against the form. In this letter, 4 members of the Politburo have simply signed their names. By this act, they have rejected the request of Beria. You see, if the members of the Politburo agreed to send out an order or to carry out a request, it was necessary for them to sign the document, and to write next to their signatures “agreed” or “after”. In order for the request to be agreed and the order to be sent out, the members had to express their agreement to the request or their agreement to an order being sent. If they simply signed the paper, it meant that the members had read the document, but had not agreed to it and had not sent out any orders. The forger was obviously not aware of this and has made the mistake. Even if this request is authentic, which it is not, it was not accepted by the Politburo.
On the first page of the document, along with the four signatures of Stalin, Molotov, Mikoyan and Voroshilov, the forger added the names of Kaganovich and Kalinin underneath these. What the forger was not aware of, is that both Kaganovich and Kalinin were absent from the 13th Session of the Politburo in March 1940. They could not have placed their signatures on this document.
Gotcha, the Soviets should have risked entering a war they weren’t certain they could win and weren’t certain the west wouldn’t flip on them. In other words, you wish they had committed suicide for Poland.
As for Katyn, it’s the same source that you read earlier, it’s Grover Furr’s blog. Grover Furr often makes poor arguments, but the historical evidence he presents is valid. You can’t explain the factual discrepancies in the documents, the eyewitness accounts stating that the Nazis did it, nor the German ammunition from 1941, nor the German produced rope, nor the Nazi execution methods, nor why you’re agreeing with Goebbels, who first created the story and whose account the anti-communist governments agree with. In absence of a response, you just say “No” and “Hah.”
If they threatened war, they would have been attacked. They knew an attack was coming, and giving the Nazis a cause for war could have been used by the west to side with the Nazis. This was not without evidence.
Harry Truman later, in 1941 in front of the Senate, stated:
If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don’t want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances.
Are you calling the mountains of evidence the Nazis did it falsified, or do you just make it a habit to take Goebbels at his word?
If they threatened war, they would have been attacked.
We don’t know that, nor if the attack on Poland would’ve gone ahead with the threat from both sides. That’s why it would’ve been a gamble. Then again, so was making a deal with them, Germany might have continued on the attack once both sides met in Poland.
Gotcha, so your point is that you denounce the Soviets for not taking an almost assured loss, and you do tkae Goebbels at his word even when evidence points to the contrary.
So you think the Soviets should’ve let the Nazis take Poland, got it. Guess you think the Holocaust wasn’t that bad after all? I would hope not, but the direct consequence of the Soviets waiting any longer than they did (17 days, Britain and France declared war after 2 but did jack shit) would be more Holocaust.
As for Katyn, no, this isn’t conspiracy theory. The basic facts of the execution method being the same, Goebbels reporting on it, and the materials being Nazi-made all point to Nazi involvement. Anti-communist organizations and governments agreeing with Goebbels despite the evidence doesn’t mean it’s a conspiracy theory:
The roots of tying the Soviets to Katyn lie in trying to push Holocaust trivialization by making the Soviets out to be as “bad as the Nazis,” thereby uplifting the Nazis and demonizing the Soviets.
I’ve been arguing for means to prevent invasion (from either side) from the beginning.
I mean according to the field of researchers, the relevant governments (even the one responsible for it), it very much is. USSR admitted to it, the legal successor state admitted to it, lot of the damning documents have been declassified… It’s dead, Jim.
Tbh it would be a conspiracy theory in either case since you think there’s a conspiracy to hide the truth.
You list no means that the Soviets didn’t already try. You’re effectively wishing for magic.
Back to Katyn, you have no explanation for why the bullets were German and produced in 1941, why the rope was German, the method Nazi, and the originator of the story Goebbels. There’s mountains of evidence against the documents listed as “proof” of Soviet guilt:
Skip to the “forgeries” section.
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Gotcha, the Soviets should have risked entering a war they weren’t certain they could win and weren’t certain the west wouldn’t flip on them. In other words, you wish they had committed suicide for Poland.
As for Katyn, it’s the same source that you read earlier, it’s Grover Furr’s blog. Grover Furr often makes poor arguments, but the historical evidence he presents is valid. You can’t explain the factual discrepancies in the documents, the eyewitness accounts stating that the Nazis did it, nor the German ammunition from 1941, nor the German produced rope, nor the Nazi execution methods, nor why you’re agreeing with Goebbels, who first created the story and whose account the anti-communist governments agree with. In absence of a response, you just say “No” and “Hah.”
Removed by mod
Harry Truman later, in 1941 in front of the Senate, stated:
We don’t know that, nor if the attack on Poland would’ve gone ahead with the threat from both sides. That’s why it would’ve been a gamble. Then again, so was making a deal with them, Germany might have continued on the attack once both sides met in Poland.
Gotcha, so your point is that you denounce the Soviets for not taking an almost assured loss, and you do tkae Goebbels at his word even when evidence points to the contrary.