Socialist countries have not been oligarchial nor dictatorial. They haven’t been utopian wonderlands free from any problems either, but they’ve been dramatically more democratic for the working class than capitalist countries.
I understand your position very well, it’s just wrong and based on critical misunderstandings of socialism in theory and in practice. Simple as that. Collectivized production and distribution works very well when it comes to economic growth and satisfying the needs of more people.
I’m not discounting “human nature,” you’re attributing it as a problem for socialism when that isn’t the case. Again, socialism doesn’t care if everyone is perfectly moral and upstanding, that has nothing to do with how we run collectivized production. You should familiarize yourself with what leftists are actually talking about before waxing poetic about how there’s some fundamental flaw we haven’t properly understood, as though we don’t hear the same tired arguments day in and day out.
Communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless society, there has never been a society that has reached that mode of production. There are socialist countries led by communist parties, which is why I answered like I did. Either you’re talking about fictional communist societies, or you’re referring to socialist countries run by communist parties, so I picked the better-faith option and answered your question with corrected terms.
I’d rather not just dismiss your point outright and take an easy victory by pointing out that you got terminology mixed up, but instead answer your point as you meant it. If that’s what you consider “moving the goalpost,” then I don’t think you were ever interested in discussion to begin with.
Socialist countries have not been oligarchial nor dictatorial. They haven’t been utopian wonderlands free from any problems either, but they’ve been dramatically more democratic for the working class than capitalist countries.
I understand your position very well, it’s just wrong and based on critical misunderstandings of socialism in theory and in practice. Simple as that. Collectivized production and distribution works very well when it comes to economic growth and satisfying the needs of more people.
I’m not discounting “human nature,” you’re attributing it as a problem for socialism when that isn’t the case. Again, socialism doesn’t care if everyone is perfectly moral and upstanding, that has nothing to do with how we run collectivized production. You should familiarize yourself with what leftists are actually talking about before waxing poetic about how there’s some fundamental flaw we haven’t properly understood, as though we don’t hear the same tired arguments day in and day out.
I didn’t say socialist, I said communist. You and I are both aware that you know the difference.
I’ve better things to do than argue with someone relying on such basic bullshit as shifting the goalposts so obviously.
Communism is a stateless, classless, moneyless society, there has never been a society that has reached that mode of production. There are socialist countries led by communist parties, which is why I answered like I did. Either you’re talking about fictional communist societies, or you’re referring to socialist countries run by communist parties, so I picked the better-faith option and answered your question with corrected terms.
I’d rather not just dismiss your point outright and take an easy victory by pointing out that you got terminology mixed up, but instead answer your point as you meant it. If that’s what you consider “moving the goalpost,” then I don’t think you were ever interested in discussion to begin with.