I’ve been getting involved with PSL and decided to apply to join. One thing I think is really important that I don’t know how to ask them without sounding like a straight up fed is: “what is the plan to turn class consciousness into revolution?” like, I’m willing to do all these typical organizational efforts but only if there’s actually a plan towards revolution and not just some nebulous hope that enough class consciousness will just make a revolution happen. If anyone from PSL can illuminate this for me I would really appreciate it. Obvi, don’t like put yourself or the org in danger by answering, so if you need to be vague that’s alright.
I don’t even know if I’m allowed to ask this here tbh. If not, mods feel free to remove this post
You must log in or register to comment.
Both the USSR and PRC inherited the ashes of empire. They didn’t cause revolution, they were just there when there was no option but something different. The Bolsheviks and Maoists had the most disciplined power structures to replace it with something that promised/met the basic needs of the people.
I think PSL has the best chance at succeeding for the same reason I think the 1960s/70s Black Panthers had the clearest path to revolution. Their Marxist-Leninist framework means they can build coherent dual structures. When nobody can afford soup, they can run an organised soup kitchen while my local Food Not Bombs is a clusterfuck full of clique drama. They’re the org that encourages reading the most books and they have the most formal processes to avoid the pitfalls of non-hierarchical mass movements like Occupy or BLM. In their absence I think DSA has the same basic role, but their ideological murkiness creates a lot more internal tension and their entryist membership is a big security risk.
i guess im being too idealistic probably. this does seem like a very realistic goal, even though it isnt exactly what i want, i do see that it can lead to that.
Keep in mind that even Lenin didn’t think he would see revolution in his lifetime and there really isn’t another person who has been or perhaps ever will be a more effective revolutionary.
To add to the example. In the early days of the CPC’s struggle, signing up to be a Communist was a death sentence. Whether it was Japanese or Nationalist bullets, or torture, or starvation, or freezing to death. They knew this.
And yet they struggled. Against impossible odds, they fought and sacrificed and died so that their comrades might see the light of a better nation. They marched until 10,000 were left, against the most advanced and powerful nations in the world, and turned that into the People’s Republic of China. For 50 years they struggled and planned before even getting a glimpse of the top of the hill of poverty.
I see this potential in the American left. Not the online left, not the Hexbears or TrueAnons or Hasan viewers. But 10,000 real American revolutionaries, I could see.
To be honest the online left doomer-pills me. Nobody in the online left spaces will be a revolutionary, including me. Too labor-averse and struggle-averse and unable to see past the infinite personal offenses they take to ever call a comrade a comrade.
But 10,000… I could see.
They also have to deal with being in the heart of the most technologically advanced police state in history. If the PSL was agitating for armed revolution, they’d be targeted by every possible arm of the law.
deleted by creator
Unfortunately we can’t choose history. It’s just continuity and rupture. The empire’s contradictions will mount until something breaks, and when it does we need to be the most informed people with the most intersectional critique and the numbers to act on it. Those numbers aren’t growing PSL itself- vanguardists are professionals- but expanding the number of community things PSL is involved in. In my DSA chapter I’m a communist by organising around the stewardship of urban greenspace and the labour organising of city employees. The result is more neighbours seeing leftists as something other than scary radicals coming for their toothbrush. We’re the group that steps up to do community work which builds real democratic community beyond what the state offers, like Black Panthers putting up stop signs where the city wouldn’t. Being a communist is just reading as much as you can about everything and then applying it in your praxis wherever you see weak points in the current system. More than anything else, class consciousness comes from people seeing the new stop sign and seeing that fellow workers put it up themselves to protect their neighbours.
no one plans a revolution. even the bolsheviks didn’t have a plan to take over the government until the day before. the process of organising towards the revolution is the process of party building (developing links with worker movements, growing the membership of the party, growing its capacity etc.). i also recommend asking someone at psl who you are in active contact with. it wouldnt hurt.
I’m not in PSL but my understanding is the “plan” is to build worker power and create the preconditions for revolution. First things first. This is in their party platform IIRC. I doubt you’ll get anything more specific for reasons you cite.
holy shit this is absolutely incredible. thank you omg thank you
I should warn you that my friends and I all read this in high school and now we’re old and not one of us has couped any etats. Then again we were using the earlier edition that put a lot of emphasis on seizing radio stations.
Edit - So I knew the author was a neo-con, but damn, some of this is pretty ugly stuff. CWs for chauvinism, Islamophobia, and so on.
pp 15-16
My true aim in writing this book was entirely different: it was to explore the meaning of politics in the many backward countries politely described as “emerging.” Some, including South Korea, have well and truly emerged since then, but many others have not—Islam in particular seems to be an insurmountable obstacle to democratic governance.
deleted by creator
Yes. Fortunately the book is enough of a satire that you can decide it’s also a parody of itself.
deleted by creator
Yeah I saw that and was immediately able to answer the question of “what are this dudes politics” lmao. I think I’ll still read through it all though, I’ll just ignore all the chud shit
Best move is to talk to the comradess you’re joining up with about this. I’d echo @starkillerfish@hexbear.net about how you don’t plan a revolution, you prepare for revolutionary conditions.
Frso also has a similar goal. My understanding of these parties, PSL has a Trotskyist origin and it continues to struggle against that, where FRSO was found by Maoists.
I am likely to join which ever org is closest to me.Edit:
FRSO Has some chauvinistic tendencies regarding indigenous people and land back in the United States. See the comment chain below.
Really, it seems like PSL might be the best communist org to join after some cursory research.
Hard to tell without spending a lot of time reading the party material
PSL has a Trotskyist origin and it continues to struggle against that
While it’s true PSL was founded by former members of a Marcyite Trostkyist party, nothing about how the party operates or what its line is has ever really been Trotskyist in any meaningful way. We have neither the tactical/strategic/structural orientation of Trots nor the geopolitical/historical/anti-imperialist political analysis of Trots.
I appreciate the updated info, Comrade, and I will keep this in mind as I talk about these orgs in the future
FRSO basically doesn’t exist in comparison to size of PSL.
They also hold a strong western chauvinist line about colonialism and the national sovereignty of Indigenous people in North America.
They also hold a strong western chauvinist line about colonialism and the national sovereignty of Indigenous people in North America.
which is especially wild given their center of operations is in Minneapolis, one of the most native urban areas in the country
They also hold a strong western chauvinist line about colonialism and the national sovereignty of Indigenous people in North America.
they HUH
They also hold a strong western chauvinist line about colonialism and the national sovereignty of Indigenous people in North America.
Can you substantiate this?
Holy crap, this is worse than I thought. They literally ignore years and years of indigenous history.
It reads like a high schooler trying to excuse settler colonialism in the United States as “Ancient history”
Thank you for highlighting this. I did not know about this with the FRSO.
Here’s a thread from when article first came out : https://hexbear.net/post/4043628
Wow, I did not know that. I will definitely keep that in mind as I’m looking at membership for these orgs in the future.
Yes if there’s literally no other options I would look into starting something local or starting a chapter of something like PSL
