A recent event led me to fact check something that I thought must be untrue, which is that Ukraine conscripts people into the military against their will, including making those people that had previously fulfilled their obligations return to the battlefield.
Moreso, when browsing X recently I saw bunch of videos being posted of what claimed were police forcing people into vans to go fight in Ukraine. The police were beating these people in the process. Now, it is possible that some of this content is propaganda, but I did want to find out if Ukraine forces conscription.
It appears that it is true:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Ukraine
I am very much against conscription. I still support Ukraine’s independence, but the fact that they are forcing people to fight through beatings, arrests, etc. is sickening to me and makes me lose respect for Zelensky. According to an estimate by Ukrainian commanders, 50% to 70% of Ukrainian conscripts are killed or wounded in their first few days in combat on some areas of the front.
What are others thoughts on this?
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So you equally oppose the brutal conscription efforts of Ukraine’s invader and occupier, Russia? Since you didn’t mention it?
This is the correct response to OP’s transparently bad-faith question.
Yeah, I’m not a fan of conscription. I’ve seen Ukrainian loved ones reckon with the difficulty of the need for a self-defense force while the rest of the world sits on its hands. I’m happy to discuss it, as long as it’s an honest discussion about conscription and not purely Ukrainian conscription?
I am very much against conscription.
Did I say I am only against Ukrainian conscription? No I did not.
Why focus on the country that is defending itself and thus using conscription as a necessary evil, instead of the aggressor using conscription to go kill innocent people? For pure conquest by an insecure little bald man. One seems closer to an evil necessity, the other just like evil, at least to me.
I bring up conscription because I’m opposed to it, that is why. That includes Russia doing it, but Ukraine is supposed to be the democracy not the dictatorship. I’m not going to look at this & think to myself, well Russia is worse so even if Ukraine started force-breeding women to create more future soldiers then it is okay cause Russia is bad. I can understand Putin is a fascist dictator, but Ukraine forcing people to war through kidnapping/beating/jail/etc. is not good either.
In World War II Europe and the US were democracies that relied on conscription to save democracy and defeat dictatorships.
And they were still bad for doing that.
Are you looking for reasons to not answer the question?
I think in a war for survival you do what has to be done.
Survival for who? Cuz those conscripts mostly die.
Mostly die? Maybe a quarter of Ukranian troops have become casualties. Deaths are maybe 1/4th of the casualties
Conscripts don’t die at the same rate as volunteers. There’s testimony of commanders demanding bribes from soldiers to not be sent to the front.
Conscripts die in droves. I guess I can’t say, for sure, that they mostly die, but their survival sure doesn’t seem to matter.
There have been over a million conscripts in Ukraine afaik. They haven’t even hit 50k deaths TOTAL (including civilians might make it just above that).
Most? Stop with the disinformation. It would be one thing if the number was close but it isn’t.
I’m pretty sure we don’t actually know the number of deaths, but also, I’m not trying to argue that they actually do die at a rate of 50% and you’re making a mountain out of a mole hill. My point is that the survival of conscripts doesn’t matter and so the question becomes “whose survival matters?” Like I said, I can’t say for sure that they mostly die. But they sure as fuck die.
What are you basing the statement that their survival doesnt matter on? They are soldiers that are inevitably needed in a war, but the countries survival depends on their success in the war which is kind of equivalent to the survival of as many of them as possible.
To me it seems Ukraine can choose between not having enough troops and inevitably losing the war and their country, or sending in conscripts (of which a certain percentage will die) and having a chance of fighting back.
It does seem cruel that some are forced to die (or risk dying) for the survival of the masses, but would it be better if all citizens were forced equally, women and children included? What would be the alternative? Relying on volunteers alone doesnt seem enough, so should they abandon their country?They don’t want to die and are being marched to their deaths? They’re conscripts.
If people want to abandon the country, fucking let them.
By forcing your citizens to die for profit?
These endless wars will continue, since money has to be made, and corporations and oligarchs have a lot of sway when it comes to foreign policy.
The next war my country’s oligarchs and corporations are pushing for is with Iran and China; the duopoly is owned and funded by these corporations and oligarchs.
It is highly unpopular here to criticize Ukraine, and people kinda have good reasons for it, with all the far-right/trolls/tankies praising Russia and undermining Ukraine support.
Still, and though I support Ukrainians in a war made by Russia, conscription (it’s always forced btw) is something I can’t get over with, it goes against liberty, equality, solidarity, everything i believe in. Fuck armies, anywhere, anywhen, anyhow. It does not mean that they should be unfunded/unsupported/fought against, just that we have to remember that they are bad to the core, and that even when necessary, they should not get any glory, any power or any reward.
“Despise the infamous glory of laurel-bearing heroes, all assassins and pirates who terrorized the whole world”. - La Paysanne, Gaston Couté
Anyway, i hope for peace in Ukraine, that they will get their previous frontiers, and that violences will soon come to an end, so that forced soldiers on both sides and Ukrainian civilians can escape this hell.
I am against conscripts.
We must always be highly critical of those with power, money, and influence; especially governments and politicians (and the oligarchs that control/sway them).
I have known about those videos being posted on twitter.
I shared some of them last year, it is great that people are escaping the echo cambers we created for ourselves!
