Okay, so the conservative who looks at your friend and sees a woman - is that conservative hallucinating? You said the only way to change perceived reality is physically or a hallucination. So the difference between your perceptions, are you saying it’s mental illness?
Second, conservative doesn’t change the reality of nonbinary people’s existence, he’s just ignorant about it. The objective reality of their existence still stands.
Ignorance, among other things, produces body of knowledge that does not reflect reality.
What’s the “objective reality” of this picture? Is it a rabbit or a duck?
You said everything has an objective reality, and refused to entertain the fact that gender presentation is a social construct, so I expect you to be consistent.
The objective reality is, it is a picture that can be perceived by humans as a picture of rabbit or duck depending on the angle. A copy of a printed paper, a set of black and white pixels.
As I said in another thread talking to you, there is an objective reality that some people see themselves as nonbinary, and that’s a fact. In a similar way, there are people who consider themselves “male, female, cis-, trans-”. And this is reality too. The way you approach it further is a field of social constructs.
The fact that gender is self-assessed and self-determined. We can’t ask a picture on whether it’s a rabbit or a duck being depicted, and its author deliberately made it look like both. Also, the objective reality is that it’s just a picture - you are not confronted with a rabbi-duck coming at you.
We can always ask a person, though, and they do have a certain opinion in what their gender is - an opinion that is essentially a sole basis for gendering someone. So their opinion of their gender essentially defines their gender, which makes it a reality.
I dunno, sounds like you just reinvented social constructs and then pretended they were objective reality.
Also if opinion is the sole determinant, are you saying I was objectively a boy back before my egg cracked? Like that I was a boy and it was objective reality? Ewwwwww!!!
Gender itself is entirely a social construct. The reality, however, is that this construct exists in our interactions, and that we are unable to define it based on anything but self-assessment.
Still, if we switch back to the scope of the objective reality about humans themselves, gender is entirely social.
Objective reality operates the category of sex and couldn’t care less about whatever we created around it - including gender and gender roles.
If my friend is nonbinary, I’m confronted with a reality that they very much exist, and it becomes ignorance to think in terms of binary gender.
From that point onwards, not believing in nonbinary people’s existence is going against the objective reality, which is and always was singular.
Okay, so the conservative who looks at your friend and sees a woman - is that conservative hallucinating? You said the only way to change perceived reality is physically or a hallucination. So the difference between your perceptions, are you saying it’s mental illness?
First, that wasn’t me.
Second, conservative doesn’t change the reality of nonbinary people’s existence, he’s just ignorant about it. The objective reality of their existence still stands.
Ignorance, among other things, produces body of knowledge that does not reflect reality.
What’s the “objective reality” of this picture? Is it a rabbit or a duck?
You said everything has an objective reality, and refused to entertain the fact that gender presentation is a social construct, so I expect you to be consistent.
The objective reality is, it is a picture that can be perceived by humans as a picture of rabbit or duck depending on the angle. A copy of a printed paper, a set of black and white pixels.
As I said in another thread talking to you, there is an objective reality that some people see themselves as nonbinary, and that’s a fact. In a similar way, there are people who consider themselves “male, female, cis-, trans-”. And this is reality too. The way you approach it further is a field of social constructs.
What makes it so the picture has no reality as a rabbit or a duck, but a human being has an objective gender?
The fact that gender is self-assessed and self-determined. We can’t ask a picture on whether it’s a rabbit or a duck being depicted, and its author deliberately made it look like both. Also, the objective reality is that it’s just a picture - you are not confronted with a rabbi-duck coming at you.
We can always ask a person, though, and they do have a certain opinion in what their gender is - an opinion that is essentially a sole basis for gendering someone. So their opinion of their gender essentially defines their gender, which makes it a reality.
I dunno, sounds like you just reinvented social constructs and then pretended they were objective reality.
Also if opinion is the sole determinant, are you saying I was objectively a boy back before my egg cracked? Like that I was a boy and it was objective reality? Ewwwwww!!!
Gender itself is entirely a social construct. The reality, however, is that this construct exists in our interactions, and that we are unable to define it based on anything but self-assessment.
Still, if we switch back to the scope of the objective reality about humans themselves, gender is entirely social.
Objective reality operates the category of sex and couldn’t care less about whatever we created around it - including gender and gender roles.