PunishedWeezing [he/him]

and? Does that make them immune to criticisms of revisionism and collaboration with imperialists? China is guilty of this as well. There is a liberal rot in both of their foreign policy apparatuses, and they need to purge them and stand in solidarity with each other - not bicker and run off to America when spurned. Both are far too chummy with the Israelis and Americans. There’s only so long the “we trade with everyone equally” excuse holds up to scrutiny before it collapses, and that was some time ago. Capital has strong footholds in both, and this is a serious problem that is warping their decision making to be more nationalistic and short-sighted.

There is a scoreboard, it’s zero sum. Vietnam will either support China or support America (or remain neutral, tacitly support America) in the upcoming cold or hot wars between the two. That is the scoreboard, and apparently for a lot of people in Vietnam and the leadership of the Vietnamese communist party it’s a pretty close thing, or Americans are even ahead. That it’s up in question at all is a problem for me and shows some pretty high level failures of leadership and education, and it’s pretty insulting to the millions who were killed by the Americans to just give into many of the conditions the Americans wanted and lose the peace, to allow American media and money to manipulate your economy and society and warp it into a pro-American outlook.

I was wrong about China apologizing actually, they have downplayed it and tried to make diplomatic amends in general with Vietnam but they haven’t specifically made an apologetic statement on that war that I can find. I think China should do so, it would benefit them to admit they were wrong in that instance and try to pay reparations. They shouldn’t leave open gaps that the colonizers can wedge and exploit.

Sorry for being smarmy. I don’t really mean it it’s just how I talk.

Ideological capture, market penetration, brainwashing, media bias, failure of principled marxist education to be applied in schools. The reasons Vietnamese people like America is the same reason that people in the Philipines and Thailand do. Money and media and intellectual capture of institutions, neocolonization.

The fact remains that the only people in a position to criticize Vietnamese foreign policy, or Chinese economic policy, are the citizens within those socialist States.

So goes internationalist anti-imperialism into the grave of squabbling nations

It is a zero-sum game between whether Vietnam supports China more, or America more. Those are the multipolar blocs of power. That’s why they are being compared. The question being implicitly asked underneath this discussion is “who would Vietnam side with in a war or cold war between China and America? Or would they remain neutral” or put another way, in a correct-thinking anti-imperialist manner: Would Vietnam fight against imperialists or with them, or would they try to fail their duties of internationalism and solidarity and remain neutral?

There are legitimate concerns and hopes that Vietnam would participate as part of the ring of containment against China, alongside Japan, Occupied Korea, Occupied Chinese Taipei, India, etc. That they are brought up in this light isn’t damning? It’s the tug-of-war meme where you see who’s on your side and go wtf?

Bad news for you, that’s a wash because Americans and the CIA also backed the Khmer Rouge. This was a huge failure and mistake on China’s part, a crime even, one they have apologized for. It’s still nothing in comparison to the American invasion, and I’m tired of pretending they are equal things on two sides of a scale and they wash each other out. They don’t.

Of more importance, the errors of the sino-soviet split are being repeated here between Vietnam and China. They both run to America when spurned, which is the exact problem. Their failure of solidarity and to stand together is the problem. They need to advance ideologically to the point where they stop doing this and stand together against imperialism.

DPRK and Cuba fight in solidarity with other struggles against the capitalists and imperialists. They get it. Vietnam and China squabbling is an indication and warning that there’s something rotten in these state departments (liberalism) and they don’t get it. They need to become as deeply ideologically advanced as the DPRK :)

Let’s not forget, the sino-soviet split happened because of ideological failures of both parties. It was first the Kruschevite revisionism and liberalization that angered Mao, and then Mao’s failure by cozying up with the American imperialists and squabbling with the USSR in geopolitical struggles, often backing really terrible people like the Mujahideen. One side made a failure of principles, and then the other, in response made an even bigger one. This is repeated if China’s unprincipled invasion of Vietnam actually creates animosity akin or greater than that against Americans, enough that there’s questions about who they would side with in a conflict and if they could be part of America’s containment strategy. There needs to be solidarity here.

I don’t blame DPRK for being cautious of China for following western sanction regimes against them, but the rest of the southeast Asian nations grievances with the PRC are overblown and exaggerated. Nothing akin to what the Americans did

I’m Arab and I’m repeating the position of the DPRK, which I admire greatly for their principles. The two nations are a stark black-and-white example of the dangers of revisionism and working alongside imperialists

I don’t see what centuries old animosity should be overcoming the, within living lifespan memory of the imperialists slaughtering a good portion of your countrymen in a decades long campaign of extermination. That’s magnitudes worse than anything “China” before the PRC has done for centuries back. Cozying back up with America after that is shameful and a failure of leadership and education. There’s no other way to put it.

Vietnamese people have a higher approval rating of America than Americans do. There is a deep brain disease, intellectual capture and failure to educate happening here.

Yes I’m sure not accepting your simple equivocating that genocidal imperialist occupation and war is equal to (or worse than) one short-lived border skirmish is due to my ignorance. We have to use thought terminating cliches and failures of logic or we are being “ignorant”

The very reason they have sovereignty over their own resources is because of the nukes

stop pretending one month-long border war is equivalent to a decades long invasion and occupation that killed millions. Vietnam (and China) cozying up with Americans is their most shameful moments in their entire histories. In fact, China’s invasion was a result of them siding with the Khmer Rouge against the USSR and alongside America. This deeply shameful act of China’s was due to their failure to uphold anti-imperialist solidarity, and now we are risking repeating the same thing. Failure begets more failure. Nationalist resentments are used as wedges by the colonizers.

And the scale of that was not even 1% of the American invasion and was over in a month.

Any Vietnamese believing that their peaceful neighbor who they have some territorial water disputes with are the “real” adversary and not the imperialists who invaded and killed millions is a disgrace to those who died and frankly, pathetic

see: Belarus

they have when compared to the imperialist americans who slaughtered millions. equating disputes with fishing ships and territorial waters to full blown invasion and genocide is absurd

one is barely socialist, almost in name only, while the other is deeply communist in all facets of society