- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
Israel’s war in Gaza is chipping away at so much of what we – in the United States but also internationally – had agreed upon as acceptable, from the rules governing our freedom of speech to the very laws of armed conflict. It seems no exaggeration to say that the foundation of the international order of the last 77 years is threatened by this change in the obligations governing our legal and political responsibilities to each other.
Well, 19th century zionism was a different thing. Edit: or rather, a more diverse collection if things. Optionally but not necessarily evil. Sometimes it was as benign as ‘lets all go somewhere and join a community together ajd bring the ways that we’re cool to that community and even if they dont totally like us, they can’t hate us more than these assholes’.
So it is fair to say that the idea of zionism that ‘won’, the genocidal theocratic ethnostate, is at least to some extent based on both the nazis, and some of the same esoteric bs the nazis were into.
It was always about stealing local people land and displace them
Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
Hertzel’s version, yes. He also tried to get literally cecil rhodes to help. There were others, and people who hated that guy. It didnt quite mean just one thing til a few years later, though.
In the modern definition of the word, yes, its herzel’s that won. I woukd never defend what it is in earnest, only point out that before it started to congeal, it could have been/meant other things.
He didn’t win. Antisemite is still a big problem and isrsel is making it even worse. Jews are still not safe anywhere
Which version was not sbout forcing a state on other people and could realistically work without mass displacement and ethenic cleansing?
Feels like he got to sieze the definition, do all his atrocities.
To you, maybe. To zionists, that’s a feature!
Nobody is, dear. Safety does not grow in walled gardens, and we firebomb the commons pretty regularly.
I forget their main advocates or if they were calked specific things, most of what i know about this was chatting with an old historian and an article i read a billion years ago, but there really were different ideas of it as recently as the thirties, like joining already extant communities somewhere. They were, like any 19th century european idea, never completely unproblematic, but some of them tried and at least read as genuinely well intentioned, and there was a lot of schismy bitterness as the meaning of thr word crystalized around hertzel’s thing. Now of course it’s one of tge most vile words in English, but he did not invent it. Mightve been the one who imported it to english.
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