Something about manufacturing consent? Lying under false pretenses?
The consent was given to the person the AI invented, not the human.
Prompted by this hellsite post:
My take is yes it is SA. But I thought everyone would be interested in this new ethical question AI is bringing to hellworld.
I don’t see how it’s SA. You still need to have the date, don’t you? You can’t just replace yourself completely with the AI other than your genitals, as much as some might like to.
I think it’s gross and offensive and dehumanizing, but not SA.
I agree, it’s bizarre behaviour, but it’s not like anyone is giving consent exclusively based on the meaningless online smalltalk you engage in before you set up a date.
If this is SA, then it seems like lying about yourself online for the purposes of getting a date would also be SA, which makes most of what happens on Tinder and Grindr count. I feel like that waters down the term more than we should want. If a person tells someone on Tinder that they’re 6’ tall when they’re really 5’11", or says they’re employed when they’re not, does it count as SA if they later meet up and have sex? Again, I think that waters down the term to the point that it minimizes actual SA.
There are some lies that I do think count–telling someone you’ve had a vasectomy when you haven’t, or that you’ve been tested for STIs when you haven’t do seem like they might constitute SA–but most are just skeezy behavior. Not everything shady that eventually involves sex is SA. This kind of behavior is really just lying about yourself online on an industrial scale, but people still need to meet in person to have sex. Unless we’re willing to call all those other kinds of lies SA also, I don’t think this would be.
Setting up a date != having sex. Presumably you have to still interact as your own person in the real-life date before you can have sex. Is it bad behavior? Absolutely. But I don’t think it’s SA.
Yeah if we call this SA then you should also call it SA when somebody embellishes part of their life or personality to attract partners. Is it kinda shitty behavior, sure but I think it’s a bit far to call it SA, otherwise anything but brutal 100% total honesty since the very first interaction with a potential partner could be construed as SA.
Obviously it’s a totally different situation if somebody straight up lies about having an STD or something like that.
then you should also call it SA when somebody embellishes part of their life or personality to attract partners
removed by deception is a thing but also I feel like there’s a line between lying or embellishing details to make yourself look attractive and like, you know those cops who had entire families with the people they were spying on so in the end idk
removed by deception is a very specific thing, not just lying about yourself. It usually refers to cases where Alice consents with Bob, and Carol impersonates Bob, or Carol lying about certain traits that influence consent such as sex or fertility. It doesn’t usually refer to Carol impersonating some third party.
there’s a scale from deceptively flattering pictures to that cop shit and we probably don’t gain anything from having that big of an umbrella.
i think this is why we have juries
Good point. i suppose if an important part is whether they’re making up character traits to seduce someone vs just convincing them to go on a date.
i very honestly doubt a chatbot is getting 10 dates per week off tinder. it probably has 10 other chat bots saying they’re gonna go on a date hoping to get bank account info
Morally this is the same as lying to someone about who you are, so I would say yes. Informed consent can’t be given if you don’t know who you’re having sex with because they lied to you
Something about manufacturing consent?
“Manufacturing consent” is not related to sexual consent at all. The word manufacturing means “mass production”. The term “manufacturing consent” refers to the process of media institutions using propaganda to make the public accept the actions of a government. It means mass producing approval or acceptance from the public.
As to whether using ChatGPT on dating apps constitutes as sexual assault, I think you should ask a lawyer. A lawyer is more qualified to answer this question than strangers on the internet.
Lawyers and the law aren’t the arbiters of consent, you are. If you want justice it’s another matter
Like I was tricked into dating a complete shithead once and it didn’t feel consensual because he lied about everything including his politics (he was Nazi adjacent and a chaser). In my head this wasn’t as bad as violence but being manipulated into having sex feels disgusting and a violation
In a tangential vein, plenty of people argue trans women are SAing men by not disclosing trans status, but this is ultimately born of transphobia. You are ultimately hooking up with a woman who says and believes they’re a woman, the men just don’t see trans women as women and expect the trans woman to say they’re a man. There is no lying here. I always suggest to trans women to disclose via text or call so you don’t have to deal with a shithead.
Don’t make this overly complicated: is it SA to pretend or fake being someone you aren’t just for sex, specially if it’s believable enough that the partner feels betrayed and confused afterwards? The tool is irrelevant.
Yes I would consider that SA
I think it’s weird and rizzless but idk if I’d consider it SA
Love that this is a conversation we get to have now.
If anything it’s an indictment on dating app culture
I don’t think so, at least not any more than ripping pick-up texts from romance novels or poetry.
Oh, remember my friend’s new boyfriend bragging about doing this a year ago and I thought it was just sad. Seems to have worked for him though, got a lot more dates after automating it, which is even sadder. Granted, they are both the kind of people that get a laugh out of having ChatGPT reply in the style of a bratty teen which they read out loud to me, and it was just painful. The next step beyond someone playing a podcast bit on a loudspeaker.
Saying that it is sexual assault is a bit much I think, presumably you meet in real life and give consent at some point before the sex.
I think so. I take the same logic when referring to the UK “spy cops” scandal.
Lying to women about your identity and morals to get in their pants or even enter comitted relationships (including in this case having children with the victims!!!) is an open-and-shut case of sexual exploitation.
If you withhold something that you know will result in the other party rescinding their enthusiastic consent for sex, you are engaging in exploitation and manipulation at the very least.
Now the “assault” part is where the term “Sexual Assault” can be unhelpful, because “assault” actually has a very concrete legal definition. One that in these acts of deception may not apply. I’m not a lawyer, though.
If we accept SA to have a broader term of assault on the basis of the emotional harm you can inflict on someone by betraying their intimate trust, then absolutely. But my only gripe is that the term itself feels too narrow.
wow amazing that he was able to use AI to get dates with tinder bots. so cool
Is it SA if they lie about themselves in any other way in order to get laid? I think that is where the answer lies, it isn’t really a new ethical question. I’m more surprised that someone using a chatbot comes across as more attractive, not less. They must really be just all kinds of awful if that is the case.
Chatbots have basic conversational skills like “asking follow-up questions” and “paraphrasing what the other person just said to demonstrate that you’re listening” and the bar is actually that low.
