Literally all this graffiti says is that men who catcall can’t do that any more if they’re dead.
I don’t think that’s quite right. Very close, but not it. It may be what was meant, but it’s not what it’s actually saying. It’s saying dead men can’t do bad things, which is like saying there are perks to men dying, it’s kind of a good thing. There’s someone who already responded to you who clearly favors that interpretation.
There are only perks to any group or individuals dying because they keep doing harmful things, if they would stop then there would be no more perks to them dying.
Personally we do not want them dead, merely to stop living in a society where they both harm and are harmed.
Yes, we know, but we had already blocked one such person, so we had to log out to see, we are glad we did block them because we don’t at all agree with actual misandry, or other bigotry.
This still ignores the implication that men dying is a good thing. I understand that’s not what YOU mean by it, but… That’s what it says. That’s the implication of the statement in a vacuum carried to its logical conclusion. That’s how a non-negligible portion of people are going to interpret it.
It comes across as having an overall favorable outlook on men dying, and most people don’t want to associate with someone who views their death as a net positive.
Well, we think they should think about it more then, we know critical thinking is not taught much in schools, but it might help with such tasks. It also might help them think about the things they could do in order to avoid having this kind of thing said in the first place, we hope.
From the way you’ve spoken so far, it seems to me there’s still some misunderstanding or miscommunication.
The more optimistic take is that we use the word “men” differently. You use it to mean “problematic men” where I use it to just mean “men”. You don’t mean all men, but you don’t communicate that effectively. If you’re the type to roll your eyes when someone complains that “not all men”, those sorts of people are ALWAYS hypocrites because I guarantee they won’t want the same nuanced understanding if someone said “dead women can’t <problematic thing>” or if something similar was said about a minority instead of women. Only when it’s about men is this level of nuance and subtle understanding required. Be more specific and don’t shit on the people you don’t intend to shit on. Don’t expect them to know your intent when it doesn’t align with your actual words.
The pessimistic take is that you think it’s true to some extent of all men, so all men deserve it to some extent. It’s similar to the male incel who thinks all women are gold digging bitches and whores, but once again, the people who think it’s true of all men would be absolutely appalled to hear a man say something is universally problematic about women. It’s sexist, it’s untrue, and it alienates people who want to help.
I don’t think it’s a an inherent trait or anything. Just that men can be problematic in two ways either they do or say <bad thing> or they don’t stand up to refute/challenge when other men do or say <bad thing>. If they aren’t either of those then that’s good then.
I’m not interested in talking about other groups at the moment as this is only about men, please stay on the subject, if you intended to compare or contrast that isn’t helpful and is just a distraction.
Ultimately what I want is for men to work on themselves and each other without either blaming other groups of people, or requiring other groups to sort out their problems for them, and for them to stop harming others. Yes I don’t think that this should stop other groups or individuals from those groups caring or helping if they want to but it shouldn’t be an expectation.
I don’t think that’s quite right. Very close, but not it. It may be what was meant, but it’s not what it’s actually saying. It’s saying dead men can’t do bad things, which is like saying there are perks to men dying, it’s kind of a good thing. There’s someone who already responded to you who clearly favors that interpretation.
There are only perks to any group or individuals dying because they keep doing harmful things, if they would stop then there would be no more perks to them dying.
Personally we do not want them dead, merely to stop living in a society where they both harm and are harmed.
Yes, we know, but we had already blocked one such person, so we had to log out to see, we are glad we did block them because we don’t at all agree with actual misandry, or other bigotry.
This still ignores the implication that men dying is a good thing. I understand that’s not what YOU mean by it, but… That’s what it says. That’s the implication of the statement in a vacuum carried to its logical conclusion. That’s how a non-negligible portion of people are going to interpret it.
It comes across as having an overall favorable outlook on men dying, and most people don’t want to associate with someone who views their death as a net positive.
Well, we think they should think about it more then, we know critical thinking is not taught much in schools, but it might help with such tasks. It also might help them think about the things they could do in order to avoid having this kind of thing said in the first place, we hope.
From the way you’ve spoken so far, it seems to me there’s still some misunderstanding or miscommunication.
The more optimistic take is that we use the word “men” differently. You use it to mean “problematic men” where I use it to just mean “men”. You don’t mean all men, but you don’t communicate that effectively. If you’re the type to roll your eyes when someone complains that “not all men”, those sorts of people are ALWAYS hypocrites because I guarantee they won’t want the same nuanced understanding if someone said “dead women can’t <problematic thing>” or if something similar was said about a minority instead of women. Only when it’s about men is this level of nuance and subtle understanding required. Be more specific and don’t shit on the people you don’t intend to shit on. Don’t expect them to know your intent when it doesn’t align with your actual words.
The pessimistic take is that you think it’s true to some extent of all men, so all men deserve it to some extent. It’s similar to the male incel who thinks all women are gold digging bitches and whores, but once again, the people who think it’s true of all men would be absolutely appalled to hear a man say something is universally problematic about women. It’s sexist, it’s untrue, and it alienates people who want to help.
I don’t think it’s a an inherent trait or anything. Just that men can be problematic in two ways either they do or say <bad thing> or they don’t stand up to refute/challenge when other men do or say <bad thing>. If they aren’t either of those then that’s good then.
I’m not interested in talking about other groups at the moment as this is only about men, please stay on the subject, if you intended to compare or contrast that isn’t helpful and is just a distraction.
Ultimately what I want is for men to work on themselves and each other without either blaming other groups of people, or requiring other groups to sort out their problems for them, and for them to stop harming others. Yes I don’t think that this should stop other groups or individuals from those groups caring or helping if they want to but it shouldn’t be an expectation.
Hope this clears that up.