Life would be easier if God didn’t exist. I’d be able to follow my own hedonistic desires and do what I’d like. But I re examined my faith and realised that God indeed exists.
Religious people do seem to need it, that’s right. The prison population is one tenth of one percent atheist despite the proportion of atheists in the unincarcerated population being hundreds of times higher. It’s not like atheists are committing crimes and then start believing in a god after they get locked up, in any significant amount. It’s not even the fact that atheists get extra persecution in prison and are just pretending to believe in prison to get the same perks as the religious - because when the federal prison system allowed atheists to identify as humanists in order to receive some of the same benefits as those who identify with a religion, not very many of them did so.
Please do keep being religious, if you truly believe that you are only capable of caring about the well-being of other humans when under divine threat. Most of us can work out the golden rule and how to be empathetic as children by recognizing the shared human experience in others.
The prison population is one tenth of one percent atheist despite the proportion of atheists in the unincarcerated population being hundreds of times higher.
Starting with United States data makes sense as the incarceration rate is so high there. I’ll leave the state and international prison searches up to you to follow up on if you decide it’s an interesting enough subject. Pew did a summarized study where they lump atheism in with scientology, Satanism, druidism, etc., but it’s still a good read.
You might find that there are also correlations between demographics of the incarcerated, uneducated and undereducated, low income, and religious. One certainly isn’t necessarily a cause of any other, but it is interesting to find a consistent correlation among all of them.
Moreso there exists no proof of sky daddys existence, why would I invent something to believe in, that places arbitrary rules upon how I live, just for funsies? If civilization collapsed, and humans had to start over from square 1, we would discover all the same scientific principles, all the same laws of thermodynamics, all the same measurements of our solar system and it’s age. What we wouldn’t do is make up the same BS stories of whatever god you happen to believe in.
You know all the stories in the bible existed in other religions before yours? Just with different names and slightly different details here and there. Every religion was made up by people from slightly altered previous religions… it’s, comically enough, just another example of evolution.
All religions are about why people shouldn’t be jerks, but most of us don’t need to believe anyone is watching us to behave. Stories are helpful, but they don’t have to have any “magic” to get their point accross. Just examples of things people don’t like or do like is enough to make it a good guiding story. A god figure is superfluous and unnecessary.
This argument always fascinates me because it makes it sound like you’d be a psychopath if you weren’t afraid of the consequences. I have my own internal compass, thanks. People that don’t? I’d rather stay away from them.
Do we all have an internal compass because of the garden of eden, or from believing in Christianity? If it’s just from the garden of eden and doesn’t require belief, then atheists are just as moral as you are and your argument makes no sense.
If a moral compass comes from religious belief, then you are telling on yourself that you only abstain from being a shitty person because you’re afraid of consequences from God.
As an avowed agnostic since the 3rd grade, you’re not wrong.
My fundamental problem with atheism is that I don’t believe it’s possible to answer the question of why is there something rather than nothing without acquiescing to the possibility of a higher power.
That being said, my qualms with organized religion are much more severe, so I rarely have reason to bicker with atheists about technicalities.
That logic is flawed. Just because we don’t understand why there is something rather than nothing, there is no logical implication that there could be a higher being. “Coincidence” would seem to be a much more likely reason (until/if we understand why) - much like coincidence being the reason for most (all?) observed miracles
“Coincidence” would seem to be a much more likely reason
How so? How do you define “coincidence” in this context?
Even if “coincidence” is more likely, that doesn’t rule out the possibility of a higher power.
Atheism is the assertion that there is no God, agnosticism is the acknowledgement that we can’t actually prove such an assertion. As an agnostic, I dont necessarily believe that a higher power is likely to exist, I simply know that I am unable to definitively prove otherwise.
If you claim to be an atheist, you should be able to logically demonstrate that a higher power cannot possibly exist. Go ahead.
Atheism is the assertion that there is no God, agnosticism is the acknowledgement that we can’t actually prove such an assertion
Most atheists tend to identify as agnostic atheists. You’re arguing against gnostic atheists, which are few and far between in my experience. The qualifier is usually dropped out of simplicity.
I’m gnostic about the Judeo-Christian god existing, and agnostic about any god existing. I still identify as an atheist.
Fair enough. I guess my understanding of the terminology may be obsolete.
But I’m unsure how you can be gnostic about the Judeo-Christian God existing. Doesn’t that require the exact same amount of faith as actual Christians, just in the opposite direction? I’m not comfortable with claiming certainty of anything in the absence of any logical framework, and thus I do not identify as an atheist.
I do identify as an atheist, and I would say it has nothing to do with some sort of faith in non-existence. I know there is a lot more to be found out about the universe, and as our methods of observation and tools improve so will our understanding of how everything fits together and where it all “came” from. What I dont understand is what would a 2000 year old book’s character have to do with anything? Why would the Abrahamic god enter the picture at all? If you can imagine that there’s some ultimate creative force that is responsible for existence, why would it resemble the “God” in the Bible? It could be something like a “white hole”, spewing matter in to the universe as another interesting but ultimately mundane cosmic feature. It certainly wouldn’t give a shit that you exist, or ever hear prayers, or that people are cruel to each other, and all the other stuff people made up and have been telling each other about God. I acknowledge that we don’t and can’t know everything about how the universe works but I don’t get why that has to leave the back door open to believing in some sapient paranormal omniscient presence floating somewhere in space. The Bible is a work of fiction. There are lots of great lessons to be learned in fiction, and it can be a great comfort and an escape, but it was written and made up by people.
Why wouldn’t it? We have no frame of reference to make a value judgment about what a higher power should or would be like. We simply have no way of knowing.
We do, however, have a framework of references regarding the other natural mysteries humans once ascribed to gods having elegant solutions rooted in the hard sciences. We searched the storm clouds and didn’t find Thor. We’ve dug boreholes and didn’t find Hades. We’ve studied the sun and haven’t found Ra. Human history is chock full of gods and “higher powers” to explain the unknown, and as we learned more about the world the less relevant they became. We learned sacrificing goats to a god does not make it rain, and now understand the natural and mundane systems that do. There’s no reason to believe that the creation of matter or “something from nothing” as you put it is any different.
Atheists. Their argument always boils down to “I don’t want God to exist because I don’t like him”
lol theists are the ones that do this “God exists because my worldview would fall apart and I’d realize I wasted my life on a manipulative fairy tale”
Life would be easier if God didn’t exist. I’d be able to follow my own hedonistic desires and do what I’d like. But I re examined my faith and realised that God indeed exists.
Sounds like you are one of the people that benefits from thinking a god is a real thing. Most of us don’t need something like that to be nice people.
It’s not about being nice people- it’s about the fact we need a Saviour because we aren’t nice people.
Religious people do seem to need it, that’s right. The prison population is one tenth of one percent atheist despite the proportion of atheists in the unincarcerated population being hundreds of times higher. It’s not like atheists are committing crimes and then start believing in a god after they get locked up, in any significant amount. It’s not even the fact that atheists get extra persecution in prison and are just pretending to believe in prison to get the same perks as the religious - because when the federal prison system allowed atheists to identify as humanists in order to receive some of the same benefits as those who identify with a religion, not very many of them did so.
Please do keep being religious, if you truly believe that you are only capable of caring about the well-being of other humans when under divine threat. Most of us can work out the golden rule and how to be empathetic as children by recognizing the shared human experience in others.
Source?
I expected you wouldn’t just Google it, but you can get started with the federal bureau of prisons providing raw data: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xwzrnrwp46v34wp/Prison_Data_Shareable.pdf?dl=0
Starting with United States data makes sense as the incarceration rate is so high there. I’ll leave the state and international prison searches up to you to follow up on if you decide it’s an interesting enough subject. Pew did a summarized study where they lump atheism in with scientology, Satanism, druidism, etc., but it’s still a good read.
You might find that there are also correlations between demographics of the incarcerated, uneducated and undereducated, low income, and religious. One certainly isn’t necessarily a cause of any other, but it is interesting to find a consistent correlation among all of them.
Moreso there exists no proof of sky daddys existence, why would I invent something to believe in, that places arbitrary rules upon how I live, just for funsies? If civilization collapsed, and humans had to start over from square 1, we would discover all the same scientific principles, all the same laws of thermodynamics, all the same measurements of our solar system and it’s age. What we wouldn’t do is make up the same BS stories of whatever god you happen to believe in.
If Christianity is man made fake stories, why does it go against all of man’s desires?
because that’s how they wrote it
You know all the stories in the bible existed in other religions before yours? Just with different names and slightly different details here and there. Every religion was made up by people from slightly altered previous religions… it’s, comically enough, just another example of evolution.
All religions are about why people shouldn’t be jerks, but most of us don’t need to believe anyone is watching us to behave. Stories are helpful, but they don’t have to have any “magic” to get their point accross. Just examples of things people don’t like or do like is enough to make it a good guiding story. A god figure is superfluous and unnecessary.
This argument always fascinates me because it makes it sound like you’d be a psychopath if you weren’t afraid of the consequences. I have my own internal compass, thanks. People that don’t? I’d rather stay away from them.
Yeah, because of the Garden of Eden. We all do.
Do we all have an internal compass because of the garden of eden, or from believing in Christianity? If it’s just from the garden of eden and doesn’t require belief, then atheists are just as moral as you are and your argument makes no sense.
If a moral compass comes from religious belief, then you are telling on yourself that you only abstain from being a shitty person because you’re afraid of consequences from God.
As an avowed agnostic since the 3rd grade, you’re not wrong.
My fundamental problem with atheism is that I don’t believe it’s possible to answer the question of why is there something rather than nothing without acquiescing to the possibility of a higher power.
That being said, my qualms with organized religion are much more severe, so I rarely have reason to bicker with atheists about technicalities.
That logic is flawed. Just because we don’t understand why there is something rather than nothing, there is no logical implication that there could be a higher being. “Coincidence” would seem to be a much more likely reason (until/if we understand why) - much like coincidence being the reason for most (all?) observed miracles
How so? How do you define “coincidence” in this context?
Even if “coincidence” is more likely, that doesn’t rule out the possibility of a higher power.
Atheism is the assertion that there is no God, agnosticism is the acknowledgement that we can’t actually prove such an assertion. As an agnostic, I dont necessarily believe that a higher power is likely to exist, I simply know that I am unable to definitively prove otherwise.
If you claim to be an atheist, you should be able to logically demonstrate that a higher power cannot possibly exist. Go ahead.
Most atheists tend to identify as agnostic atheists. You’re arguing against gnostic atheists, which are few and far between in my experience. The qualifier is usually dropped out of simplicity.
I’m gnostic about the Judeo-Christian god existing, and agnostic about any god existing. I still identify as an atheist.
Fair enough. I guess my understanding of the terminology may be obsolete.
But I’m unsure how you can be gnostic about the Judeo-Christian God existing. Doesn’t that require the exact same amount of faith as actual Christians, just in the opposite direction? I’m not comfortable with claiming certainty of anything in the absence of any logical framework, and thus I do not identify as an atheist.
I do identify as an atheist, and I would say it has nothing to do with some sort of faith in non-existence. I know there is a lot more to be found out about the universe, and as our methods of observation and tools improve so will our understanding of how everything fits together and where it all “came” from. What I dont understand is what would a 2000 year old book’s character have to do with anything? Why would the Abrahamic god enter the picture at all? If you can imagine that there’s some ultimate creative force that is responsible for existence, why would it resemble the “God” in the Bible? It could be something like a “white hole”, spewing matter in to the universe as another interesting but ultimately mundane cosmic feature. It certainly wouldn’t give a shit that you exist, or ever hear prayers, or that people are cruel to each other, and all the other stuff people made up and have been telling each other about God. I acknowledge that we don’t and can’t know everything about how the universe works but I don’t get why that has to leave the back door open to believing in some sapient paranormal omniscient presence floating somewhere in space. The Bible is a work of fiction. There are lots of great lessons to be learned in fiction, and it can be a great comfort and an escape, but it was written and made up by people.
Why wouldn’t it? We have no frame of reference to make a value judgment about what a higher power should or would be like. We simply have no way of knowing.
We do, however, have a framework of references regarding the other natural mysteries humans once ascribed to gods having elegant solutions rooted in the hard sciences. We searched the storm clouds and didn’t find Thor. We’ve dug boreholes and didn’t find Hades. We’ve studied the sun and haven’t found Ra. Human history is chock full of gods and “higher powers” to explain the unknown, and as we learned more about the world the less relevant they became. We learned sacrificing goats to a god does not make it rain, and now understand the natural and mundane systems that do. There’s no reason to believe that the creation of matter or “something from nothing” as you put it is any different.