This is infuriating to me. I’m going to include big chunks from the article, because otherwise you won’t get the actual picture.
Here is the incident:
Yellow lights flashed on a pole above — fixed alongside bicycle and pedestrian crossing signs — as she biked off the Hahn Arroyo trail and across Carlisle, south of Montgomery, in Northeast Albuquerque. A driver in a blue car slowed to a stop for the 19-year-old as she rolled into the northbound lanes that afternoon.
An SUV in the next lane screeched to a halt, nearly hitting her.
But it was a black Ford Fiesta, in the far right lane, that slammed into VanLandingham — sending her and her bicycle flying through the air.
Here is the legal context:
Burton said the woman was driving 28 mph in the 35 mph zone and told police she didn’t see the flashing yellow lights — although they don’t require drivers to yield, either, according to state statute. Only flashing red lights require drivers to stop and yield to those walking and biking.
“There’s no signage that says that requires a driver to slow, stop, yield right of way — anything,” Burton said of the crossing used by VanLandingham. He said drivers they spoke with had different interpretations of the crossing: some said the lights are always flashing, even with nobody there. Others said they slow down if they see the lights flashing.
The crossing is not considered a marked or unmarked crosswalk despite the signs and lights and, according to the statute, drivers “may proceed through the intersection or pass such a signal only with caution.”
And here are the consequences:
The Albuquerque Police Department said no charges are expected to be filed against the woman who crashed into VanLandingham.
Sgt. James Burton of APD’s Fatal Crash Unit said, “She’s not speeding, she’s not intoxicated, she’s not driving recklessly. We have no proof that she was doing anything distracted in the vehicle, so even if she was, I can’t prove it.”
This is how incredibly fucking bad people are at driving. Even the police can’t imagine that seeing people in other lanes slowing down and stopping at a flashing yellow light should be an indication that there might be something to be cautious about.
Even without the yellow flashing lights, if you see people suddenly stopping in other lanes on the road, continuing to drive without slowing down to a near stop seems like completely reckless driving to me, because you can’t see through the stopped cars. And if you didn’t see the stopped cars, then you must be driving distracted.
And the laws in Albuquerque don’t even require drivers to yield at flashing yellow lights? What’s the fucking point? That’s disgusting.
And let this be a reminder. If you’re crossing a road, even if you have the right of way, that won’t save you from being killed by a shitty driver.
This is a fucking tragedy, and they’re doing nothing about it. Pathetic excuse for a city. The bodies of good intentioned young people will continue to pile up while they sit there and do nothing.
Burton said the woman (…) didn’t see the flashing yellow lights — although they don’t require drivers to yield, either, according to state statute. Only flashing red lights require drivers to stop and yield to those walking and biking.
“There’s no signage that says that requires a driver to slow, stop, yield right of way — anything,”
Am I getting this right: yellow flashing lights at a crossing, presumably installed officially, are legally meaningless? Isn’t putting them there an act of deliberately misleading pedestrians/cyclists then?
It’s absolutely insane, that means it’s not a pedestrian crossing it’s a pedestrian trap to bait them into crossing where drivers can legally run them over.
There is a lot of malpractice going on in traffic engineering (I say as a person trained as a traffic engineer). In a sane world, the engineer of record would lose his license for this sort of shit.
Who do you think writes the MUTCD, deciding which signage and road markings carry the force of law and which don’t (i.e. which are ‘regulatory’ and which are ‘advisory’)? Who do you think decides to use a particular type of signage and marking in a particular situation?
This was 100% on the engineer, who specified a design inappropriate for the situation.
What he’s saying is “the traffic engineers decided to use a flashing yellow indicator, which means nothing and carries no legal force, over a traditional stoplight or flashing red, which would require yielding.” Intersections, like every mile of roadway, are designed and signed off on somewhere by some engineer.
@A_norny_mousse@logicbomb Every state has some version of duty of care or expectation that a driver maintain control of their vehicle to avoid collisions. Passing stopped cars in two adjacent lanes before hitting the person crossing under a flashing yellow light is definitely an indication of negligence. There was clearly some traffic engineer negligence too, but if police/the DA wanted to at least put a mark on the driver’s record for killing the victim, they absolutely could.
Wouldnt matter, only a fucking moron would think the can demand priority/right of way. You wait for cars to stop, because if they dont, well, this happens. So many people think that being right is some kind of shield, its not. Being right will get you killed just as quickly as being wrong. Even when its a red light, if youre stepping out in front of a 2 tonne death machine, you make sure its stopped first.
@Bennyboybumberchums@A_norny_mousse Do you say this about motorists who are proceeding through an intersection with a green light when someone comes along speeding on the cross street, fails to stop, and t-bones them?
Yes I do. Priority/right of way is not taken, it is given. Had loads of fucking idiots speeding through shit they werent supposed to. LOOKING, saved my life on many occasions over my 30 years of driving. As I said, being right isnt a protective shield.
lol that happened to me on a motorbike, except I swerved, avoided them, but still ate shit. Assume everyone else on the road are idiots or you will get hurt.
This type of flashing yellow light does not require drivers to stop, it is just there for warning. My city has been spending (wasting) a huge chunk of its ped “safety” funds on this type of signal. It is a way to make it look like traffic engineers care about ped safety, without doing anything that would actually slow down cars.
Nothing scares me more then crossing a strode with these types of signalized lights. Even signalized intersections with more then 2 or more lanes of traffic scare the shit out of me.
This roadway is designed like a hwy and the flashing lights want it to be a street.
This crossway needs to be raised, the stopping point needs to be 2 car lengths back from the crossway. And potentially the roadway need to be shrunk down to one lane with a island in the center if the intention is to turn this strode back into a street.
This is infuriating to me. I’m going to include big chunks from the article, because otherwise you won’t get the actual picture.
Here is the incident:
Here is the legal context:
And here are the consequences:
This is how incredibly fucking bad people are at driving. Even the police can’t imagine that seeing people in other lanes slowing down and stopping at a flashing yellow light should be an indication that there might be something to be cautious about.
Even without the yellow flashing lights, if you see people suddenly stopping in other lanes on the road, continuing to drive without slowing down to a near stop seems like completely reckless driving to me, because you can’t see through the stopped cars. And if you didn’t see the stopped cars, then you must be driving distracted.
And the laws in Albuquerque don’t even require drivers to yield at flashing yellow lights? What’s the fucking point? That’s disgusting.
And let this be a reminder. If you’re crossing a road, even if you have the right of way, that won’t save you from being killed by a shitty driver.
This is a fucking tragedy, and they’re doing nothing about it. Pathetic excuse for a city. The bodies of good intentioned young people will continue to pile up while they sit there and do nothing.
Am I getting this right: yellow flashing lights at a crossing, presumably installed officially, are legally meaningless? Isn’t putting them there an act of deliberately misleading pedestrians/cyclists then?
It’s absolutely insane, that means it’s not a pedestrian crossing it’s a pedestrian trap to bait them into crossing where drivers can legally run them over.
There is a lot of malpractice going on in traffic engineering (I say as a person trained as a traffic engineer). In a sane world, the engineer of record would lose his license for this sort of shit.
https://bookwyrm.social/book/1907724/s/killed-by-a-traffic-engineer
thank you
https://bookwyrm.social/book/320954/s/confessions-of-a-recovering-engineer
See also: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4ZJBLI7Y9Vo-ogDOzMgLk1RrxAphs0Yv
That’s not an engineer thing that’s a law thing.
Who do you think writes the MUTCD, deciding which signage and road markings carry the force of law and which don’t (i.e. which are ‘regulatory’ and which are ‘advisory’)? Who do you think decides to use a particular type of signage and marking in a particular situation?
This was 100% on the engineer, who specified a design inappropriate for the situation.
… If you think engineers make laws…
For the amusement of the rest of us, I’d love if you explained who you think writes building codes, electrical codes, municipal street codes, etc etc
Hmm hostility and wants an answer. Tell me how that goes in life.
Do you have the air of a confidently incorrect Redditor garbage person?
Do you?
No u type response. Later chud. I will not be responding further. Thank you for proving my point
What he’s saying is “the traffic engineers decided to use a flashing yellow indicator, which means nothing and carries no legal force, over a traditional stoplight or flashing red, which would require yielding.” Intersections, like every mile of roadway, are designed and signed off on somewhere by some engineer.
@A_norny_mousse @logicbomb Every state has some version of duty of care or expectation that a driver maintain control of their vehicle to avoid collisions. Passing stopped cars in two adjacent lanes before hitting the person crossing under a flashing yellow light is definitely an indication of negligence. There was clearly some traffic engineer negligence too, but if police/the DA wanted to at least put a mark on the driver’s record for killing the victim, they absolutely could.
A mark on the record for killing someone seems like a weak response.
They should lose their license and the intersection should be fixed.
Wouldnt matter, only a fucking moron would think the can demand priority/right of way. You wait for cars to stop, because if they dont, well, this happens. So many people think that being right is some kind of shield, its not. Being right will get you killed just as quickly as being wrong. Even when its a red light, if youre stepping out in front of a 2 tonne death machine, you make sure its stopped first.
@Bennyboybumberchums @A_norny_mousse Do you say this about motorists who are proceeding through an intersection with a green light when someone comes along speeding on the cross street, fails to stop, and t-bones them?
Yes I do. Priority/right of way is not taken, it is given. Had loads of fucking idiots speeding through shit they werent supposed to. LOOKING, saved my life on many occasions over my 30 years of driving. As I said, being right isnt a protective shield.
deleted by creator
lol that happened to me on a motorbike, except I swerved, avoided them, but still ate shit. Assume everyone else on the road are idiots or you will get hurt.
Here is the intersection location:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4uxzNMZbAVDuyrsz5
This type of flashing yellow light does not require drivers to stop, it is just there for warning. My city has been spending (wasting) a huge chunk of its ped “safety” funds on this type of signal. It is a way to make it look like traffic engineers care about ped safety, without doing anything that would actually slow down cars.
Nothing scares me more then crossing a strode with these types of signalized lights. Even signalized intersections with more then 2 or more lanes of traffic scare the shit out of me.
This roadway is designed like a hwy and the flashing lights want it to be a street.
This crossway needs to be raised, the stopping point needs to be 2 car lengths back from the crossway. And potentially the roadway need to be shrunk down to one lane with a island in the center if the intention is to turn this strode back into a street.
That intersection looks like a nightmare for crossing on foot or bike. It’s so flat and open cars are going to want to just gun it.
I hate this mindset that you have to prove they were distracted
mf the outcome proves that they were not capable of driving safely NO MATTER the reason
You can kill a person and no charges can be raised? This is so dumb…
No sir, I did push that guy from the roof, but you see the pavement killed him! I left him alive and quite excited actually…
I agree, it’s still manslaughter even if it was involuntary.
Literally walking away. Really infuriating.