I’ve been on Wayland for the past two years exclusively (Nvidia).
I thought it was okay for the most part but then I had to switch to an X session recently. The experience felt about the same. Out of curiosity, I played a couple of games and realized they worked much better. Steam doesn’t go nuts either.
Made me think maybe people aren’t actually adopting it that aggressively despite the constant coverage in the community. And that maybe I should just go back.
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Yes. I’ve used X11 for far too long to have any rose tinted glasses for the piece of fucking broken shit it always was. a LOT of people don’t realize how many hacks, workarounds and sheer tears and duct tape goes into making the piece of shit render the smallest line on the screen.
That’s also why Phoronix comment section neckbeards are so infuriating for me. They talk like X.Org works like at all.
Since I switched to AMD about a month ago. Literally every naggling issue I had with NVidia is gone. Only complaint is that I didn’t switch sooner.
Zero issues for me. Been daily driving it for years. Play Steam games regularly, but have not tried switching to X. Performance on Windows is MUCH better with my 1080ti playing D4, but I’m prefectly content with preformance on Linux and don’t want to keep switching.
Ye, since Plasma 5.24 I think. Used to occasionally switch to X11 for competitive gaming, but as of Plasma 6 their Wayland compositor supports fullscreen tearing, so now I have no need to use X11 anymore
Started my Linux journey with Wayland 1.5 years ago and haven’t used X11 at all.
Oh, you’ve been missing out on a lot of “fun” 😄
I will daily drive Wayland when it becomes Xorg function equivalent e.g. functional screen capture and overlays like every other OS (so never)
nah man, gotta be more specific. When those stuff work on every application.
A screen reader protocol for blind people that requires the app to be recompiled and opt-in to being accessible to accessibility tools, is not a replacement for one that worked for every application. Old apps will become impossible to use for some people with accessibility issues. Though wayland fanboys would tell you to shut up and be happy that a protocol exists, while failing to acknowledge that the protocol is literally fucking useless by design.
Yeah. Wayland is a nightmare of accessibility and as someone privileged to be able-bodied it can be tragically easy to forget.
Hopefully this Wayland fad goes away and we have a better protocol designed from scratch soon.
I’ll adopt it when it’s ready.
For NVIDIA users, that’s the right answer. For AMD users, it’s already ready. No problems here (6700xt)
I’ll switch to wayland when it runs better than X. And that isn’t the case for now.
I’ve been using Hyprland for about 2 years. I did have some issues with screen sharing (teams, discord) and some steam games (non native, with proton) need some extra launch parameters, but they all work now. Over time I was able to fix all the little issues. For me Hyprland is a daily driver, but I like to tinker. I can see how this is not for everyone.
May I ask how you solved the screen sharing problems? Also do you use keybinds for apps such as discord? When I tried Hyprland none of them were working.
Hey, sorry for the late reply.
I remember installing
xdg-desktop-portal-hyprlandinstead ofxdg-desktop-portal, and in myhyprlandconfig I have:exec-once = dbus-update-activation-environment --systemd WAYLAND_DISPLAY XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP exec-once = systemctl --user import-environment WAYLAND_DISPLAY XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOPI can’t remember everything I tried… I didn’t keep track. I’ve been using this setup for close to 3 years now…
I know that for Ferdium I used the extra params
--ozone-platform=wayland --enable-features=UseOzonePlatform, but I think it doesn’t need them anymore (I use it for Teams and other chat apps with screensharing).For Discord I use Webcord, which works just fine, also with screen sharing, I didn’t have to do anything.
When it comes to key bindings, here’s my working setup:
# binds $mainMod = SUPER $lock = playerctl --player=mpd,firefox,mpv -a pause ; ~/.config/hypr/scripts/swaylock bind = $mainMod, Q, killactive, bind = $mainMod SHIFT, Q, exit, bind = $mainMod, X, exec, $lock # lock bind = $mainMod, RETURN, exec, alacritty bind = $mainMod SHIFT, RETURN, exec, alacritty -t scratchpad --class scratchpad bind = $mainMod, E, exec, nemo bind = $mainMod, W, exec, firefox bind = $mainMod, R, exec, rofi -show drun --allow-images bind = $mainMod SHIFT, E, exec, wofi-emoji bind = $mainMod, P, pseudo, # dwindle bind = $mainMod SHIFT, Space, togglefloating, bind = $mainMod, F, fullscreen, 1 # maximize window bind = $mainMod SHIFT, F, fullscreen, 0 # fullscreen bind = $mainMod, S, exec, grim -g "$(slurp)" - | wl-copy # screenshot selection to clipboard bind = $mainMod SHIFT, S, exec, grim -g "$(slurp)" - | swappy -f - # screenshot selection and open in swappy bind = $mainMod SHIFT, R, exec, wf-recorder -a -g "$(slurp)" -f "${HOME}/$(date +%Y-%m-%d_%H-%m-%s).mkv" -c h264_vaapi -d /dev/dri/renderD128 &>/dev/null # screenrecord bind = ,XF86AudioMute, exec, pactl set-sink-mute @DEFAULT_SINK@ toggle binde = ,XF86AudioLowerVolume, exec, pactl set-sink-volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ -2% binde = ,XF86AudioRaiseVolume, exec, pactl set-sink-volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ +2% bind = ,XF86AudioMicMute, exec, pactl set-source-mute @DEFAULT_SOURCE@ toggle binde = ,XF86MonBrightnessUp, exec, light -A 5 binde = ,XF86MonBrightnessDown, exec, light -U 5 # resize windows binde = $mainMod, left, resizeactive, -40 0 binde = $mainMod, right, resizeactive, 40 0 binde = $mainMod, up, resizeactive, 0 -40 binde = $mainMod, down, resizeactive, 0 40 # move focus bind = $mainMod, h, movefocus, l bind = $mainMod, l, movefocus, r bind = $mainMod, k, movefocus, u bind = $mainMod, j, movefocus, d # move windows bind = $mainMod SHIFT, h, movewindow, l bind = $mainMod SHIFT, l, movewindow, r bind = $mainMod SHIFT, k, movewindow, u bind = $mainMod SHIFT, j, movewindow, d # switch workspaces bind = $mainMod, 1, workspace, 1 bind = $mainMod, 2, workspace, 2 bind = $mainMod, 3, workspace, 3 bind = $mainMod, 4, workspace, 4 bind = $mainMod, 5, workspace, 5 bind = $mainMod, 6, workspace, 6 bind = $mainMod, 7, workspace, 7 bind = $mainMod, 8, workspace, 8 bind = $mainMod, 9, workspace, 9 bind = $mainMod, 0, workspace, 10 # move windows to workspace without switching (silent) bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 1, movetoworkspacesilent, 1 bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 2, movetoworkspacesilent, 2 bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 3, movetoworkspacesilent, 3 bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 4, movetoworkspacesilent, 4 bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 5, movetoworkspacesilent, 5 bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 6, movetoworkspacesilent, 6 bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 7, movetoworkspacesilent, 7 bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 8, movetoworkspacesilent, 8 bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 9, movetoworkspacesilent, 9 bind = $mainMod SHIFT, 0, movetoworkspacesilent, 10 # move/resize windows with LMB/RMB bindm = $mainMod, mouse:272, movewindow bindm = $mainMod, mouse:273, resizewindow # scroll through existing workspaces bind = $mainMod, mouse_down, workspace, e+1 bind = $mainMod, mouse_up, workspace, e-1 # switch workspace with mouse back/fw buttons bind = $mainMod, mouse:276, workspace, m+1 bind = $mainMod, mouse:275, workspace, m-1 bind = $mainMod SHIFT,up,focusmonitor,u bind = $mainMod SHIFT,down,focusmonitor,d binde = $mainMod, TAB, workspace, previous
Probably never. X11 just works better. Wayland has bad design and bad implementations.
I keep seeing people say this, and nobody ever gives any sensible reasons for why they believe this.
Do you honestly think X11 has a better design than wayland? Do you think every single app should have permissions to screen record without you knowing, to keylog without you knowing? That mixed refresh rates (without hacks) should be impossible, that mixed display scaling should be impossible, etc? X11 just seems fundamentally broken from the ground up, I have no idea what of x11’s design is better in any way.
I’ll grant you there’s some implementation issues right now, but design is absolutely not a place where x11 wins. There is not a single X11 developer who would agree with you that the design of X11 is better than wayland, not even one.
Do you think every single app should have permissions to screen record without you knowing, to keylog without you knowing?
Can you point me to a single notable breach that happened because of this?
Classical security thinking is that if you have a compromised app running, it’s all over anyway, and it’s time to wipe and reinstall. Luckily, this isn’t a problem on Linux because packages are vetted by distributions maintainers… unless…
Unless the new plan is to transition from that to flatpak proprietary stores packaged by unknown developers, giving us trashware app stores like on Android and Windows.
Sure, if you expect to run proprietary malware on Linux then some protection might be useful. But then you’re just running a shitty version of Windows, and not getting the historical cultural benefits of Linux anyway. Might as well run Windows.
That is NOT classical security thinking AT ALL, and anybody who told you that is lying to you. Classic security thinking says minimize the surface area of attack…
…I’m sorry but your core argument seems to be “it’s okay that clients can do literally whatever they want because if you run anything proprietary you should be using windows” and I don’t understand this all-or-nothing stance. Do you expect me to vet every line of code that runs on my PC to make sure it’s safe? Do you think everyone should do that? Do you think the operating system should be designed so that grandmas are required to read code before they install software?
I’m sorry but this is just so obviously terrible design, I don’t know how you think gatekeeping solves anything, and that seems to be all you’re doing. Shitty clients shouldn’t be able to wreck peoples lives/computers, and we should minimize the amount of damage shitty clients can do. You also seem to believe that everyone is cognizant of the fact that they’ve been infected with something, in reality, you will go months or even decades without knowing you’ve been hit in some cases, we should minimize the amount of damage that can cause, not give them full access to everything on the entire pc because you think we should check every piece of software that runs.
There aren’t newsworthy breaches involving x.org because it’s widely regarded as not to be trusted, and has been for so long that nobody uses it for anything that needs security.
Flatpak is great and has a verification system so you know when the app is by the developer… It’s sandboxed so the clients can’t do as much damage, this is significantly easier for users to manage and prevents terrible things while not limiting anybodies usecase and allowing apps to be packaged for every distro at once. That’s pretty awesome, actually, and you can use different repos if you don’t trust flathub, i’m sure once flathub does something bad there will be alternate “more secure” ones.
Either way, I don’t want to live in the world where you make the choices for software, it seems like you want a world where everyone needs a license to use their computer.
What the fuck are you smoking dude, X11 is used all over the place
and we should minimize the amount of damage shitty clients can do.
Can’t have global shortcuts or share my screen but at least my system is secure from these non-existent threats snort
Why don’t I just smash my computer with a sledgehammer for the ultimate protection from flatpak malware.
Why I’m not using it:
- worse performance (Nvidia)
- couldn’t get screen sharing and recording to work
- unfinished or abandoned alternatives to xorg tools (swhkd for example)
Made me think maybe people aren’t actually adopting it that aggressively despite the constant coverage in the community.
Take the community with a grain of salt; It’s made up of the same type of people that say Arch is a stable distro that never has any issues.
Some distros are pushing it aggressively (Fedora for example), so use them as a more accurate gauge. If Fedora doesn’t accept the proposal to start phasing out xorg, you can know for sure it doesn’t have the conversion rates they’re hoping for.
I think the Xorg vs Wayland situation is not too dissimilar to that of Windows vs Linux. Lots of people are waiting for all of their games/software work (just as well or better) on Linux before switching. I believe that in most cases, switching to Linux requires that a person goes out of their way to either find alternatives to the software they use or altogether change the way they use their computer. It’s a hard sell for people who only use their computer to get their work done, and that’s why it is almost exclusively developers, tech-curious, idealists, government workers, and grandparents who switch to Linux (thanks to a family member who falls into any subset of the former categories). It may require another generation (of people) for X11 to be fully deprecated, because even amongst Linux users there are those who are not interested in changing their established workflow.
I do think it’s unreasonable to expect everything to work the same when a major component is being replaced. Some applications that are built with X11 in mind will never be ported/adapted to work on Wayland. It’s likely that for some things, no alternatives are ever going to exist.
Good news is that we humans are complex adaptive systems! Technology is always changing - that’s just the way of it. Sometimes that will lead to perceived loss of functionality, reduction in quality, or impeded workflow in the name of security, resource efficiency, moral/political reasons, or other considerations. Hopefully we can learn to accept such change, because that’ll be a virtue in times to come.
(This isn’t to say that it’s acceptable for userspace to be suddenly broken because contributors thought of a more elegant way to write underlying software. Luckily, X11 isn’t being deprecated anytime soon for just this reason.)
Ok I’m done rambling.
