That would require them to use nato funding to invade the US. Not even if they just called it slavery straight up would that happen.
These are the same people that can’t even hold Isreal accountable and you expect them to stop the US from hurting itself ? Considering this is not the first time the US has done this to it’s citizens/legal immigrants Europe would be better off holding the US at arms lenth and hoping it implodes
I sure hope so. It would be dumb to let the Neo Confederates control the whole of North America, because their tendrils would violate all the other nations that can be reached. The ocean is a barrier that will eventually fail.
The only true way to prevent Europe’s soil from being soaked with blood, is to commit to bleeding on American dirt.
They’re activelly destroying Science in the US, pretty much guaranteeing their own fatal weakening in the mid and long term if they did win and ended up controlling North America.
With the notable exception of the US ending up using nukes and causing the end of the World, there is no way Europe would lose more from merely letting present day America eat itself up than it would from militarily intervening in a civil war in the US, because even a win by the Neo Confederates would yield a weakened American in the short term (because of the destruction of a Civil War) and even more in the long term because of their anti-Science stance, and likely braindrain.
(People seriously underestimate the likelihood of rich countries regressing. To give you an example, Argentina used to be the 5th weathiest country in the World and look at them now. America absolutelly would end up regressing, FAST, if the MAGA crowd with the policies it is already practicing gained absolute power).
Not to say that many Americans who aren’t Neo Confederates wouldn’t deserve the help, just saying that pragmatically speaking letting America consume itself would be better for Europe than militarily intervening in an American civil war.
Now, if this was 40 or 50 years ago it would be different, but present day America isn’t a force for good and there being a EU gives Europe enough strength as a team to stand up by itself to powers like China and Russia if they try anything, so there both isn’t all that much good (for the World as a whole) in America to be worth saving and Europe doesn’t actually require American support.
I have to disagree about Europe standing aside and allowing North America fight itself. Ask yourself this: what if Fascism won?
While the ideological blindness would undoubtedly make a Dogey America less effective, totalitarianism has something that democratic countries lack: Unadulterated ambition and not giving a damn who has to suffer for it. I feel that your position isn’t much different from the mainstream Democrats in America, who use “compromise” to get the easiest fruits for themselves, and simply standing aside to let things progress to their conclusion.
This passive stance innately allows people of stronger intent to control nations. It would be much better if the EU was proactive, otherwise Dogey America may very well be dictating how Europeans live. Good people should be willing to impose their beliefs, even if it feels bad. The alternative is ceding control to humans who lack the empathy to care about others.
I was born in Portugal, a country which was back then under a Fascist Dictatorship.
It was a dirt poor European country were things were so bad that it got Food Aid from other countries.
Fortunatelly, there was a Revolution not long after I was born. In the 5 - 10 years after the Revolution quality of life and average wealth in my country went up dramatically.
In my own country, Fascism came to power when the Finance Minister during Republican years who saved the country from Financial Ruin, just captured power and made himself President - so yeah, starting from a very low point Fascism can improve things a bit for a while, but it doesn’t take that many years for it to turn the whole thing into shit and that’s what happenned in Portugal.
Fascists might sometimes cause a little Economic bump if they take over from a very low point (the same happenned with the Nazis in Germany), but it never lasts, and the ones in America are already going at it so ineptly and haphazardously that I bet there’s not going to be any Economic bump.
The Fascists are incompetent as fuck and seriously regressive, so they eventually drag down any nations they take over once the cummulative side effects of their actions have time to work through the system. As America is already in a post-Imperial decay stage, Fascism will just accelerate that decay.
I have no doubt that Dogey America will fall, eventually. What it comes down to, is how many people are ruined along the way?
That is why I think Europe and others should proactively work against Dogey America. It would help limit the amount of damage that is caused to everyone who isn’t fascist. How many decades should North America be a fascist stronghold?
WHEN the US of A’s Civil War Part2 begins, it’ll be simultaneous with the US’s waging war against Canada.
So, it’ll be saving Canada’s life, by mitigating the US’s effectiveness…
and with the US waging war against Canada ( & Mexico, Panama, etc… ), Putin will be ( with China’s & Saudi Arabia’s complete backing ) waging war against the EU/rest-of-NATO.
Trump’s a Putin-ally, not a NATO, & that’s been true since the 1980’s.
the NATO bill they’ve now got drafted in the US, in removing the US from NATO isn’t a spur-of-the-moment thing: its roots go back to the Kremlin’s investment in Trump, last-century…
IF by “taking a side” you mean cheering on, from the sidelines, sure, NATO’ll take a side…
however, if by “taking a side” you mean invading, … get real.
WHEN the US Constitution is rendered completely-irrelevant ( 2028, as that’s when the required election would threaten Trump’s kinghood ) by wars against ALL neighbors, & then the CCP can carve-up Asia, & MBS can gain possession of the entire Middle-East, all of Africa, etc… ( I don’t know who gets South America, but it isn’t the West: China’s the one who’s been investing in it, & the oligarchs/far-right have been investing in highjacking it, so it’s a tossup between them, isn’t it? … oh, “Israel” won’t exist much past 2028: Hamas’s brilliant unconscious strategy was to use the life of the Palestinian people as bait, to get “Israel” to display its narcissistic/machiavellian/psychopathic/nihilistic/sadistic/systemically-dishonest/prejudice ( all dimensions that also express through other prejudice-ideologies, including islamism, white-supremacism, etc… ) & once the Muslim world no longer cared if they survived the fight, that ANNIHILATING “Israel” is REQUIRED… then suddenly “Israel” no-longer has any military “deterrent”, do they? “Deterrent” REQUIRES that opponents be deterred, right? Making them into unhesitating martyrs isn’t “deterring” them, is it? “Israel” is sooo completely prejudice-polarized that it isn’t competent to perceive that concept, apparently. So, once that tipping-point is crossed, then “Israel” gets annihilated, exactly as the Christian prophecy declared ( Matt 24, iirc ) )
WHEN the US Constitution is rendered completely-irrelevant, THEN… TrueNATO’ll have sooo many problems of its own, that the US of A will have to wage war on all its neighbors WHILE exterminating civil-rights, leftists, Christians who’re loyal to LivingSpirit, people of all other religions who’re loyal to LivingSpirit, LivingSpirit itself, if they can figure out how, etc…
it’ll simply be nazism, all over again.
Only the appearances will be different.
Will they even have giant murder-factories, as the nazis had over 1000 of?
probably…
A more important question, for the survivors will be: as soon as Putin & Trump drop ( they are old: this will happen to them ), then … will the CCP’s empire step up to be rampaging the remnant of the West?
The correct answer is yes, they will.
Fundamentally, humankind “can’t” tolerate civil-rights to rule over authority, so EVERY kind of authoritarianism is going to try breaking civil-rights from our world, completely.
White supremacism, then CCP authoritarianism… then another, then another… until either humankind’s underlying-nature is force-changed, XOR until humankind’s extinguished…
Some would say that the US of A has been providing aid to the world, all along!
Yes, simultanously with CIA treachery…
As is obvious, ALL our countries have been playing that kind of game!
Some would say that the world, endlessly-helped by the US of A, owes the US of A help in surviving its Civil War Part2…
After all the treachery that the US has enforced so as to prevent civil-rights from having real leverage in the world…
( here’s 1: Afghanistan.
Obama let it slip that there was immense mineral-wealth there…
so, how come the US of A hadn’t helped the Afghani people get a functioning government & economy built on that, instead of having opium remain the spine of the Afghani economy??
Colonialism.
Sad, or what?
Then I found out that it was Carter who obliterated the good government in Afghanistan, so as to prevent it from interfering with the US’s dominion-game…
& these are 2 of the “good guys”?? )
Humankind has NO right to claim, in G-D’s face, that it has “done the right thing”, at any scale, consistently.
Now humankind has to sort itself out.
The US of A has to sort itself out.
If the balance-of-power means that evil wins, then … then humankind needs force-extinguishment, for the Solar-systems, or/and the Galaxy’s sake.
Our factionalism will do the enforcing: no need for any “intervention”, but it’ll be humankind’s planet-scale civil-war.
& deathmatch.
War of attrition.
Either 1 kind survives, or none do.
That is the proper framing, for the entire rest of this century.
The US is just 1 little set-of-battles, not anywhere-near the whole thing of this century’s “force cleaning-up of humankind”.
The US won’t be a player in the mid 2030’s: Trump’s making certain of that.
deleted by creator
That would require them to use nato funding to invade the US. Not even if they just called it slavery straight up would that happen.
These are the same people that can’t even hold Isreal accountable and you expect them to stop the US from hurting itself ? Considering this is not the first time the US has done this to it’s citizens/legal immigrants Europe would be better off holding the US at arms lenth and hoping it implodes
The question is only posed if the US had a civil war: would NATO take a side?
I sure hope so. It would be dumb to let the Neo Confederates control the whole of North America, because their tendrils would violate all the other nations that can be reached. The ocean is a barrier that will eventually fail.
The only true way to prevent Europe’s soil from being soaked with blood, is to commit to bleeding on American dirt.
They’re activelly destroying Science in the US, pretty much guaranteeing their own fatal weakening in the mid and long term if they did win and ended up controlling North America.
With the notable exception of the US ending up using nukes and causing the end of the World, there is no way Europe would lose more from merely letting present day America eat itself up than it would from militarily intervening in a civil war in the US, because even a win by the Neo Confederates would yield a weakened American in the short term (because of the destruction of a Civil War) and even more in the long term because of their anti-Science stance, and likely braindrain.
(People seriously underestimate the likelihood of rich countries regressing. To give you an example, Argentina used to be the 5th weathiest country in the World and look at them now. America absolutelly would end up regressing, FAST, if the MAGA crowd with the policies it is already practicing gained absolute power).
Not to say that many Americans who aren’t Neo Confederates wouldn’t deserve the help, just saying that pragmatically speaking letting America consume itself would be better for Europe than militarily intervening in an American civil war.
Now, if this was 40 or 50 years ago it would be different, but present day America isn’t a force for good and there being a EU gives Europe enough strength as a team to stand up by itself to powers like China and Russia if they try anything, so there both isn’t all that much good (for the World as a whole) in America to be worth saving and Europe doesn’t actually require American support.
I have to disagree about Europe standing aside and allowing North America fight itself. Ask yourself this: what if Fascism won?
While the ideological blindness would undoubtedly make a Dogey America less effective, totalitarianism has something that democratic countries lack: Unadulterated ambition and not giving a damn who has to suffer for it. I feel that your position isn’t much different from the mainstream Democrats in America, who use “compromise” to get the easiest fruits for themselves, and simply standing aside to let things progress to their conclusion.
This passive stance innately allows people of stronger intent to control nations. It would be much better if the EU was proactive, otherwise Dogey America may very well be dictating how Europeans live. Good people should be willing to impose their beliefs, even if it feels bad. The alternative is ceding control to humans who lack the empathy to care about others.
I was born in Portugal, a country which was back then under a Fascist Dictatorship.
It was a dirt poor European country were things were so bad that it got Food Aid from other countries.
Fortunatelly, there was a Revolution not long after I was born. In the 5 - 10 years after the Revolution quality of life and average wealth in my country went up dramatically.
In my own country, Fascism came to power when the Finance Minister during Republican years who saved the country from Financial Ruin, just captured power and made himself President - so yeah, starting from a very low point Fascism can improve things a bit for a while, but it doesn’t take that many years for it to turn the whole thing into shit and that’s what happenned in Portugal.
Fascists might sometimes cause a little Economic bump if they take over from a very low point (the same happenned with the Nazis in Germany), but it never lasts, and the ones in America are already going at it so ineptly and haphazardously that I bet there’s not going to be any Economic bump.
The Fascists are incompetent as fuck and seriously regressive, so they eventually drag down any nations they take over once the cummulative side effects of their actions have time to work through the system. As America is already in a post-Imperial decay stage, Fascism will just accelerate that decay.
I have no doubt that Dogey America will fall, eventually. What it comes down to, is how many people are ruined along the way?
That is why I think Europe and others should proactively work against Dogey America. It would help limit the amount of damage that is caused to everyone who isn’t fascist. How many decades should North America be a fascist stronghold?
Oh, it’s totally fucked up and I do agree that Europe should proactively work against Dogey America.
My point is that Europe militarily intervening in an American Civil War doesn’t have enough upsides for Europe to offset the downsides.
WHEN the US of A’s Civil War Part2 begins, it’ll be simultaneous with the US’s waging war against Canada.
So, it’ll be saving Canada’s life, by mitigating the US’s effectiveness…
and with the US waging war against Canada ( & Mexico, Panama, etc… ), Putin will be ( with China’s & Saudi Arabia’s complete backing ) waging war against the EU/rest-of-NATO.
Trump’s a Putin-ally, not a NATO, & that’s been true since the 1980’s.
the NATO bill they’ve now got drafted in the US, in removing the US from NATO isn’t a spur-of-the-moment thing: its roots go back to the Kremlin’s investment in Trump, last-century…
IF by “taking a side” you mean cheering on, from the sidelines, sure, NATO’ll take a side…
however, if by “taking a side” you mean invading, … get real.
WHEN the US Constitution is rendered completely-irrelevant ( 2028, as that’s when the required election would threaten Trump’s kinghood ) by wars against ALL neighbors, & then the CCP can carve-up Asia, & MBS can gain possession of the entire Middle-East, all of Africa, etc… ( I don’t know who gets South America, but it isn’t the West: China’s the one who’s been investing in it, & the oligarchs/far-right have been investing in highjacking it, so it’s a tossup between them, isn’t it? … oh, “Israel” won’t exist much past 2028: Hamas’s brilliant unconscious strategy was to use the life of the Palestinian people as bait, to get “Israel” to display its narcissistic/machiavellian/psychopathic/nihilistic/sadistic/systemically-dishonest/prejudice ( all dimensions that also express through other prejudice-ideologies, including islamism, white-supremacism, etc… ) & once the Muslim world no longer cared if they survived the fight, that ANNIHILATING “Israel” is REQUIRED… then suddenly “Israel” no-longer has any military “deterrent”, do they? “Deterrent” REQUIRES that opponents be deterred, right? Making them into unhesitating martyrs isn’t “deterring” them, is it? “Israel” is sooo completely prejudice-polarized that it isn’t competent to perceive that concept, apparently. So, once that tipping-point is crossed, then “Israel” gets annihilated, exactly as the Christian prophecy declared ( Matt 24, iirc ) )
WHEN the US Constitution is rendered completely-irrelevant, THEN… TrueNATO’ll have sooo many problems of its own, that the US of A will have to wage war on all its neighbors WHILE exterminating civil-rights, leftists, Christians who’re loyal to LivingSpirit, people of all other religions who’re loyal to LivingSpirit, LivingSpirit itself, if they can figure out how, etc…
it’ll simply be nazism, all over again.
Only the appearances will be different.
Will they even have giant murder-factories, as the nazis had over 1000 of?
probably…
A more important question, for the survivors will be: as soon as Putin & Trump drop ( they are old: this will happen to them ), then … will the CCP’s empire step up to be rampaging the remnant of the West?
The correct answer is yes, they will.
Fundamentally, humankind “can’t” tolerate civil-rights to rule over authority, so EVERY kind of authoritarianism is going to try breaking civil-rights from our world, completely.
White supremacism, then CCP authoritarianism… then another, then another… until either humankind’s underlying-nature is force-changed, XOR until humankind’s extinguished…
Some would say that the US of A has been providing aid to the world, all along!
Yes, simultanously with CIA treachery…
As is obvious, ALL our countries have been playing that kind of game!
Some would say that the world, endlessly-helped by the US of A, owes the US of A help in surviving its Civil War Part2…
After all the treachery that the US has enforced so as to prevent civil-rights from having real leverage in the world…
( here’s 1: Afghanistan.
Obama let it slip that there was immense mineral-wealth there…
so, how come the US of A hadn’t helped the Afghani people get a functioning government & economy built on that, instead of having opium remain the spine of the Afghani economy??
Colonialism.
Sad, or what?
Then I found out that it was Carter who obliterated the good government in Afghanistan, so as to prevent it from interfering with the US’s dominion-game…
& these are 2 of the “good guys”?? )
Humankind has NO right to claim, in G-D’s face, that it has “done the right thing”, at any scale, consistently.
Now humankind has to sort itself out.
The US of A has to sort itself out.
If the balance-of-power means that evil wins, then … then humankind needs force-extinguishment, for the Solar-systems, or/and the Galaxy’s sake.
Our factionalism will do the enforcing: no need for any “intervention”, but it’ll be humankind’s planet-scale civil-war.
& deathmatch.
War of attrition.
Either 1 kind survives, or none do.
That is the proper framing, for the entire rest of this century.
The US is just 1 little set-of-battles, not anywhere-near the whole thing of this century’s “force cleaning-up of humankind”.
The US won’t be a player in the mid 2030’s: Trump’s making certain of that.
_ /\ _
No. It’d require them to use NATO funding to defend the rest of the world from us.
Even less likely unless the US directly attacks EU members.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
No but other countries might want to take stock of what’s happening and weigh the pros and cons of increasing their defense spending.
deleted by creator
Removed by mod