I think the problem with your argument is the measure of paranoia. It’s 100% reasonable to be suspicious and cautious around men, strange or familiar, if you’re a woman. The issue I think most men have to this isn’t reasonable suspicion or reasonable caution, but rather the over the top reaction women online seem to have.
An example of this might be a youtube video about women checking into a hotel alone vs a man checking into a hotel alone. The man checks in and goes right to bed, the lock on the door automatically engages when the door closes. The example with the woman has her block the one way peephole, double check the deadbolt, brace a chair against the door handle, string a tight rope from the door handle to a firm anchor in the bathroom, unplug the phone, close the blinds, check that the mirror isn’t see through, and sweep the room for listening devices. You see this and think it must be satire, and it might be, but then you go into the comments and there’s a ton of women saying how true this is and how you gotta be careful of men when traveling alone. Every so often you’ll see a comment from a man about how this is insane and all the women respond how he’s privileged and doesn’t understand why women have to do all this.
No man is going to begrudge a reasonable reaction to strangers and safety, but relating to a comic about seeing a spam notification about singles in your area and locking your door is ridiculous. It’s this over the top reaction that men become offended by, not reasonable caution.
The issue I think most men have to this isn’t reasonable suspicion or reasonable caution,
What level of suspicion is reasonable?
Granted, I will not pretend that women are somehow above being very superstitious and silly. I’ve seen armored SUVs marketed to suburban house moms that are beyond parody. But still, for a demographic of people who largely do not have to deal with predatory men, being men themselves, how do men know what a reasonable degree of caution looks like?
but relating to a comic about seeing a spam notification about singles in your area and locking your door is ridiculous.
Well, this comic is… comedy. It has to be a little silly for the joke to land.
Locking the door with a common deadbolt has less to do with actually protecting anyone and more to do with being visual shorthand for a comedic sentiment.
Please forgive me, but I’m going to answer your post in the opposite order it was given.
I completely agree about the comedy and the satire of the original comic, I’m not opposed to it being over the top to deliver it’s comedic message. I’ll also say that the message is comedic in a dark way. The issue inherent to it is when you have people giving seemingly literal agreement to satirical statements, which is what a lot of these comments have devolved into. Your own post was 659 words, 44 lines, and 14 paragraphs obviously this discussion isn’t just about visual shorthand of a comic, it has some amount of real world investment.
As to your first question, I can’t give a concrete answer. As with many psychological things I can’t tell you what is a reasonable amount of suspicion, but I can say what is an overreaction. Similarly, I can’t tell you what a reasonable amount of collecting is, but I can spot hoarding. I can’t tell you what a reasonable attention to detail is, but I can spot an obsessive compulsive behavior. I’m not a doctor, and won’t pretend to be one, so I can’t tell you in definite terms what a reasonable suspicion is, but I can certainly identify an overreaction.
If someone sees an overly dramatic comic about women being fearful of men and their reaction is to defend the over dramatic behavior then that’s an overreaction. When men call out this behavior as overly dramatic and someone defends it, and in fact doubles down on it, then it’s clearly not just satire or a dark joke.
If we’re using the example of the hotel room I would venture to say that a reasonable level of suspicion would be to lock the door, turn the deadbolt, put the swing arm on, and don’t open the door for strangers. If you start getting into hiding, configuring contraptions, barring the door with chairs, and checking the mirrors to see if they are see through, that’s an overreaction in my book.
The issue inherent to it is when you have people giving seemingly literal agreement to satirical statements,
I will just take this at face value: what makes this an issue?
I don’t know if my neighbor has double-locked their front door, should I go and check?
this discussion isn’t just about visual shorthand of a comic, it has some amount of real world investment.
Yes, I am aware that jokes are political.
My reading is that this is yet another rearing of the man vs. bear debate. Our eternal prison.
so I can’t tell you in definite terms what a reasonable suspicion is,
I’m not asking for definite terms, I’m suggesting that women have more experience dealing with men and danger and dangerous men than men do. Men do have a lot of opinions about it, though.
If we’re using the example of the hotel room […] If you start getting into hiding, configuring contraptions, barring the door with chairs,
In the comic, she just engages the deadbolt.
It has been some hours since I last looked at this thread, but I imagine that men are not upset she’s being overly cautious, but rather that the comic is suggesting that they—they are taking this personally—are scarier people than women are. They are responding to hurt feelings.
And then when a woman is raped and murdered in her hotel room, men like you will be saying that she must have wanted it because she didn’t even take basic precautions to make sure no-one could get in.
So when women start taking these precautions, because generations of women before them have learnt from experience that when a man rapes you, it’s your fault for not taking precautions… men like you now complain that women are overly paranoid and making things worse for themselves, because their precautions are hurting your feelings.
First off, uh no I would not blame the victim for being raped and murdered and the fact that that is what you lead with is pretty telling. Next I think it’s really telling that you are saying the over reaction is “basic precaution.”
If a woman does a normal amount of precaution, such as locking the door and not opening it for strangers, that’s normal and perfectly reasonable. If the woman literally barricades herself in that’s insane. In either case, if she is attacked or raped it’s not her fault and but that doesn’t mean overreaction isn’t overreaction.
I think the problem with your argument is the measure of paranoia. It’s 100% reasonable to be suspicious and cautious around men, strange or familiar, if you’re a woman. The issue I think most men have to this isn’t reasonable suspicion or reasonable caution, but rather the over the top reaction women online seem to have.
An example of this might be a youtube video about women checking into a hotel alone vs a man checking into a hotel alone. The man checks in and goes right to bed, the lock on the door automatically engages when the door closes. The example with the woman has her block the one way peephole, double check the deadbolt, brace a chair against the door handle, string a tight rope from the door handle to a firm anchor in the bathroom, unplug the phone, close the blinds, check that the mirror isn’t see through, and sweep the room for listening devices. You see this and think it must be satire, and it might be, but then you go into the comments and there’s a ton of women saying how true this is and how you gotta be careful of men when traveling alone. Every so often you’ll see a comment from a man about how this is insane and all the women respond how he’s privileged and doesn’t understand why women have to do all this.
No man is going to begrudge a reasonable reaction to strangers and safety, but relating to a comic about seeing a spam notification about singles in your area and locking your door is ridiculous. It’s this over the top reaction that men become offended by, not reasonable caution.
What level of suspicion is reasonable?
Granted, I will not pretend that women are somehow above being very superstitious and silly. I’ve seen armored SUVs marketed to suburban house moms that are beyond parody. But still, for a demographic of people who largely do not have to deal with predatory men, being men themselves, how do men know what a reasonable degree of caution looks like?
Well, this comic is… comedy. It has to be a little silly for the joke to land.
Locking the door with a common deadbolt has less to do with actually protecting anyone and more to do with being visual shorthand for a comedic sentiment.
Please forgive me, but I’m going to answer your post in the opposite order it was given.
I completely agree about the comedy and the satire of the original comic, I’m not opposed to it being over the top to deliver it’s comedic message. I’ll also say that the message is comedic in a dark way. The issue inherent to it is when you have people giving seemingly literal agreement to satirical statements, which is what a lot of these comments have devolved into. Your own post was 659 words, 44 lines, and 14 paragraphs obviously this discussion isn’t just about visual shorthand of a comic, it has some amount of real world investment.
As to your first question, I can’t give a concrete answer. As with many psychological things I can’t tell you what is a reasonable amount of suspicion, but I can say what is an overreaction. Similarly, I can’t tell you what a reasonable amount of collecting is, but I can spot hoarding. I can’t tell you what a reasonable attention to detail is, but I can spot an obsessive compulsive behavior. I’m not a doctor, and won’t pretend to be one, so I can’t tell you in definite terms what a reasonable suspicion is, but I can certainly identify an overreaction.
If someone sees an overly dramatic comic about women being fearful of men and their reaction is to defend the over dramatic behavior then that’s an overreaction. When men call out this behavior as overly dramatic and someone defends it, and in fact doubles down on it, then it’s clearly not just satire or a dark joke.
If we’re using the example of the hotel room I would venture to say that a reasonable level of suspicion would be to lock the door, turn the deadbolt, put the swing arm on, and don’t open the door for strangers. If you start getting into hiding, configuring contraptions, barring the door with chairs, and checking the mirrors to see if they are see through, that’s an overreaction in my book.
I will just take this at face value: what makes this an issue?
I don’t know if my neighbor has double-locked their front door, should I go and check?
Yes, I am aware that jokes are political.
My reading is that this is yet another rearing of the man vs. bear debate. Our eternal prison.
I’m not asking for definite terms, I’m suggesting that women have more experience dealing with men and danger and dangerous men than men do. Men do have a lot of opinions about it, though.
In the comic, she just engages the deadbolt.
It has been some hours since I last looked at this thread, but I imagine that men are not upset she’s being overly cautious, but rather that the comic is suggesting that they—they are taking this personally—are scarier people than women are. They are responding to hurt feelings.
And then when a woman is raped and murdered in her hotel room, men like you will be saying that she must have wanted it because she didn’t even take basic precautions to make sure no-one could get in.
So when women start taking these precautions, because generations of women before them have learnt from experience that when a man rapes you, it’s your fault for not taking precautions… men like you now complain that women are overly paranoid and making things worse for themselves, because their precautions are hurting your feelings.
First off, uh no I would not blame the victim for being raped and murdered and the fact that that is what you lead with is pretty telling. Next I think it’s really telling that you are saying the over reaction is “basic precaution.”
If a woman does a normal amount of precaution, such as locking the door and not opening it for strangers, that’s normal and perfectly reasonable. If the woman literally barricades herself in that’s insane. In either case, if she is attacked or raped it’s not her fault and but that doesn’t mean overreaction isn’t overreaction.