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Honestly so happy I’m married, I’m sorry for all of y’all. Dystopian times.
But hey to add my two cents: I think that fear is marketable, so women are over fed on paranoia.
At the same time, porn and propaganda have put bad expectations in some percentile of dumb men.
Both sexes are generally out of social practice, and societal trust is at an all time low. Most people are nice, but most people are also awkward.
So get out there and meet some people, don’t even do so romantically, just go learn how to interact with people, form some friendships.
Men looking for women as romantic partners is like searching for potable water in a desert.
When looking for men as romantic partners is like searching for potable water in a SWAMP.
How come str8s don’t consult with their local LGBTQ+ friendos? I like playing matchmaker.
Because with the possible exception of the bi’s, you’re all inherently unqualified for the job of setting up a heterosexual relationship. Why don’t you ask straight men to pick out sweaters? Because we’re bad at it at an anatomical level.
Gotta have local friendos first…
Yep, that’s just how it is these days. Let me ask though, does it really matter?
If the girls are afraid of the guys, that’s their problem, not yours. Stick the time into something else you enjoy, let nature run it’s course. Find a job you don’t hate, spend your money as you like, live a happy life without the anxiety of rejection.
We’re finally approaching some twisted semblance of equality via men becoming afraid of women in return ._.
Men who took the lesson to heart:
Ladies don’t want to talk to you.
They don’t want you to approach them.
They don’t want you to initiate social interaction.
Men need to be less visible, less audible, overall less perceptible, because this coincides with them being less obnoxious.Instead of teaching them to act in less obnoxious ways, society taught them to act less–period.
And so, I now see unironic posts showing up on social media of women asking each other (paraphrased),
“Why don’t men ever talk to me anymore?”
“Why don’t men ever approach me anymore?”
“Even when I see men in public, they never even acknowledge me. Why are they ignoring me? What is going on?”A lot of folks heard the pleas of women wishing men would just leave them alone. And a fair proportion of the men acquiesced.
I mean, yeah, SOME didn’t, and became even more obnoxious, but the chronically unfuckable bootlicking simps of the fascist grift are more miserable now than they’ve ever been; The few that “seem” “successful” are just poster children of survivorship bias, pied pipers leading the naive and highly suggestible to self-inflicted ruin.
I have divested myself of this bizarre tragedy of errors. Humans are humans. I treat humans like humans. If other people project weird freaky intentions upon me while I’m JUST trying to mind my own gods damned business existing within line of sight and vague proximity, that’s THEIR skill issue. AT LEAST nonbinary asexual persons never get weird at me like the ones vested in all the maladaptive notions and festooned in toxic stereotypes… and it’s refreshing. Good riddance to all the outdated reproductive caste dynamics. Good riddance to the gilded cage of having to drag-perform whatever the fuck I was assigned at birth.
does it really matter?
Does a dysfunctional society matter?
Not overly much - society has “dysfunctioned” along perfectly well for millennia. It will continue to be dysfunctional for many more millennia.
Better to enjoy your life and spite that dysfunction than to live under its heel.
Fun fact, by doing the above, you’ll end up meeting women who don’t feel that way and are relationship material, and plenty of acquaintances who think you “don’t count” because you’re “one of the good ones”.
you’ll end up meeting women
Do I want to?
I’m posing a broader question about society to clarify a general concern with no particular motivation, and you make it about meeting women. That suggests something about assumed motivations in these discussions.
Huh? This literally what the meme is about and you are having a discussion in it’s comment section beneath?
if girls are afraid of guys, that’s my problem
I understand you but I want to continue being grossed out by the idea of people thinking I am a rapist. Purely because I don’t want to be desensitized to this subject.
Single X in my area. Uses the plural form.
Well, which is it?!??
Took me longer than I’d care to admit.
This is kind of like how parents don’t let their kids play out anymore because the news told us it’s all pedophiles out there.
Yeah, all the pedophiles are in the church and government.
It’s a sad reality, but women literally risk life and limb by meeting a strange man. Dating platforms are crawling with predators, when one is identified it can take weeks or months to remove the account. Be patient out there gentlemen.
You risk life and limb crossing the street. It is reasonable to take some precautions like looking both ways or waiting on a walk signal. It is not reasonable to assume every driver will swerve into you when they see an opportunity.
Take care to prepare for the worst for your own safety, but don’t assume the worst in others.
Isn’t it hilarious that women VASTLY PREFER dating strangers than from within their own social sphere? The phenomenon of "But we’re friends! is a cliche for a reason.
Do you have any statistics backing up that claim or is that purely anecdotal/an subjective assumption?
Again, why is friend zoning such a cliche? Because women usually turn down men they’ve already met.
Okay, so the latter.
Just because a cliché exist does not mean it’s actually true. People that are complaining about a lot on the Internet are maybe more likely to spend too much time on the Internet in general and by that are more likely to have a lack of social skills in the real world.
To counter that anecdotally: in my social circle a lot couples spawned from a previous social connection and there are only a few that meet through dating apps or where a random hook up in the first place.
Turning down people isn’t something bad. It’s worse to end up with someone who don’t fit.
Friendzone though is most often just not having guts to say that loud and clear.
Maybe they turn down men they already considered and rejected? Strangers are still being considered.
So just need to bio-enhance women to be super strong in order to get dates, got it.
All roads lead to dommy mommy
Of course it doesn’t feel great to think that people are uncomfortable and threatened just being aware that you are a single man who exists in the same environment, but if that’s how it’s gotta be, how do you successfully communicate that you are not a threat?
how do you successfully communicate that you are not a threat?
I don’t.
I’m not interested in socializing with discriminating cretins who deal in absolutes and i like my peace of mind.but if that’s how it’s gotta be, how do you successfully communicate that you are not a threat?
That’s what a predator would say.
No, seriously, trust is built over time.
No, seriously, trust is built over time.
Well yeah, obviously, but why would someone give you the opportunity if being around you makes them uncomfortable and threatened? It works the other way around too; I wouldn’t want to spend time with someone if it seems like doing so might be making them feel afraid, in that case I’m just going to stay away from them.
Pressure quite often. Social pressure, psychological pressure. It can be a form of de-escelation out of fear what would happen if you rejected the person. Not entirely the same situation, but that’s the reason I can’t say no that easily to my alcoholic brother’s shenanigans. Imagine what women go through on a daily basis
Makes sense, but there has to be a better way as that sounds awful, like it does not sound like your alcoholic brother is genuinely building trust with you that way.
No he doesn’t. But it’s the easiest way for me to cope and deal with the situation. I don’t have the patience or the mental fortitude to try and convince or convert my family to abstain from alcohol. I’d rather avoid the situation and look out for my own well-being than be exposed to their drinking. I know it’s not the healthiest strategy, but it’s what’s been helping me the past few years
You people know this is a good thing, right? It’s our population problem regulating itself.
I had a friend that used to bring all her first dates to the bar I tended. Just in case.
That’s a good strategy. The first time I met my wife in person, she arranged to have a friend call and check in and give her excuse to bounce if things weren’t’ right.
Wait… Because so many of them turned out to be predators?.. On the first date? Like it was THAT common?
How many times did you have to step in and stop things?
You’ve only got to be wrong once.
Yeah it’s the whole poison M&Ms thing… Would you keep eating if you knew just one might kill you.
But I guess IRL dating still happens, so we clearly do have a drive to persist and try. Story of humanity I guess.
It’s so irritating. What right do humans have to keep existing? After murdering most of the world and creating a hellscape.
If one is sufficiently motivated, one takes one’s chances.
The stats on these things exist.
But nobody likes to talk about them, because they don’t line up with the ‘men are all evil’ narrative.
Women are way more likely to get assaulted by someone already in their life than a random stranger. That stat makes people VERY uncomfortable. Much harder to imagine your uncle or your co-worker will assault you than some random guy on the street…
Noticed you left out “partner” there buddy.
That’s usually the #1
Well yeah, but presumably if you have a partner already, you aren’t going on too many dates with strangers.
People you’re on a first date with count as people in your life, not as strangers in those polls, iirc.
No, not generally, no.
It means your immediate and extended family, people you live with, people you’ve known and interacted regularly with for 2+ years… people who you have had a consistent relationship with for some time.
And also these aren’t like… ‘polls’, in the derogatory sense of a dubious or poor quality one.
They’re crime stats, and academic reviews of them.
The public image of rape is of the proverbial stranger attacking a woman in an alleyway. While such rapes do occur, most rapes actually happen between people who know each other. A wide body of research finds that 60–80 percent of all rapes and sexual assaults are committed by someone the woman knows, including husbands, ex-husbands, boyfriends, and ex-boyfriends, and only 20–35 percent by strangers (Barkan, 2012). A woman is thus two to four times more likely to be raped by someone she knows than by a stranger.
(This is a bit old, but the citation for Barkan 2012 is a literal Criminology textbook, used to teach Criminology… it keeps getting updated and revised, but I am not able to find the entire text of the most up to date version available freely.)
A first date is a stranger, I guess possibly unless this is a first physical date after a prolonged long-distance relationship.
A boyfriend, husband, or ex… is not a stranger, in the sense of a person you have no substantial relational history with.
…
Also, if we are talking about domestic abuse, violence committed by people in a substantial relationship, toward their partner:
IPV is common. It affects millions of people in the United States each year. Data from CDC’s National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey (NISVS) indicate:
About 41% of women and 26% of men experienced contact sexual violence, physical violence, or stalking by an intimate partner during their lifetime and reported a related impact.
Over 61 million women and 53 million men have experienced psychological aggression by an intimate partner in their lifetime.
https://www.cdc.gov/intimate-partner-violence/about/index.html
(You may note this page was last updated before DOGE did its DEI purge of online US gov data, looks to me like this survived it unaltered, I’ve been using this page as a citation every so often for years when discussions like this pop up.)
So yeah, this is obviously a big problem for women… but more than half as many men have been victims of that first, very serious category of IPV as women, and something like 7/8ths as many men have been psychologically abused as women, by a partner.
When you take into account that genrerally heteronormative machismo dissuades men from reporting psych abuse, and that… many places in the US still don’t consider a woman forcing a man to have sex with them against their will… to even be rape / SA …
…yeah, I mean, the proverbial ‘win’ probably still goes to men for being just overall more likely to do IPV, but the margins of that ‘win’ are way more narrow than most people seem to think.
…
Another factor that is very prevalent to IPV that is rarely emphasized by society:
A whole lot of relationships involving IPV have two guilty parties, both are abusive (like, legally, often criminally), the entire relationship, both parties to it, are toxic.
Wouldn’t that depend on the quality and source of the poll? Like in academia when there’s a publication with a poll (generally called a survey) - they usually publish a methodology section which states how things are being defined/asked.
Methodologies between surveys aren’t universal, so I don’t think it makes sense to speak of “all polls”.
Obviously. The majority of them that I’ve seen group people into friends, acquaintances, strangers, partners, colleagues, and family. First dates are acquaintances.
Nah, if it’s a first meeting surely that’s a stranger. Like those researchers are using a flawed methodology if they’ve assumed everyone tells the truth about themselves online. Clearly a flawed idea. Doesn’t sound very academic to me.
I’ve heard total horror stories from exes and friends. First date weirdos and creeps are absolutely a common thing. Never hurts to be safe, especially in such a non-obtrusive way!
I feel like weirdo, creepy, and predator, are three different terms. I kinda like weirdos, the other two not so much. Predators are the worst.
I think the internet and the collecting of anecdotes that everyone probably has (I have some), can sometimes construct a self-selecting criteria that paints the world to sound worse than it is.
I just sometimes worry that online, or in anecdotes we’re using a selection criteria that takes humanity, and make the worst of it stand out to the point nothing is worth doing, no one is worth sparing or dating.
Of course there are unambiguous cases of horrible predators. But here’s to the weirdos and even some of the creeps, may your social skills dramatically improve through the stories you ended up in, and may you never lose your way and become predators.
There’s some guy out there with a religion that says you are basically the devil, and there is nothing you can do about it.
I think it was fairly clear from what I said about “horror stories” that I didn’t mean harmless and fun weird people.
I think weirdo, basically means we have different standards of behaviour, and/or humour.
Creep, means they wanted to have sex with me and I didn’t want to have sex with them.
Predator, means they’re stalking or pestering me.
So like I guess I just don’t have weirdo “horror” stories (they’d be escalated to creep, horror is creepy or involves predators). But you seem more like you’re willing to mix all the terms into a stew of bad. Understandable.
Anyways, thanks for the discussion. 🙏
I never had to actually step in for her. She’d just casually mention I was a friend, or introduce me, if things weren’t good. Apparently, that settled things down.
We would occasionally get people who couldn’t take a hint and we’d tossed them out when there were a complaints.
Oh that’s good. Good job!
Dating platforms areLIFE is crawling with predatorshe FTFY
Edit: Just to add “predator” is not only the psycho that will kill/rape a woman. Any men that do not accept a NO, that thinks they are “playing hard to get”, that catcalls a woman in the streets, ta makes an unsolicited comment about their body, that thinks woman are ment to do whatever they want… any of those men are predators.
Any men is a comment away from being a predator. Don’t be this man
What if someone were to say, start intentionally spreading rumors about men by claiming they had seen several women raped in their lives? For the sake of population control. That sounds like it would be very effective if I could find a large enough audience.
“Be patient out there gentlemen”
Naahhh…just give up on finding anyone
Suicide and loneliness seems like the only answer.
With that attitude.
Don’t do it…
That’s one thing not worth dying for. Modern humans are meant to be self-sufficient individuals that depend on nothing but the very basics to survive.
What is the point of living so, I think we are getting into the big filter…
You must have your own purpose, completelly independent of others
Truly a well-chosen nickname.
Yes
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Just be worthy of trust and you’ll earn it.
The weird thing I really don’t have a big issue with that. It’s just that the rhetoric just crushes me because it never ends and it fucks my head up and I start to doubt myself.
I have to work really hard to consistently push through that myself. I fail and spiral into despair about 25% of the time. I’m getting better at it though.
Turns out he’s a locksmith.
And he’s a locksmith
for people who doesn't get the joke
Thanks!
Seeing memes and comics like this spread so often, I am having a hard time understanding how SO MANY GUYS are just now discovering that women aren’t as horny as they are and we have different standards for attraction between the genders and sexes.
This is fine, it’s normal, people who want different things still meet and crank out crotchfruit every damn day, you just have to compromise and meet in the middle on what you both want and ya’ll have to get over yourselves.
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Yep. When will people understand that the only way to a good and just society is to treat half the human population as inherently monstrous from birth? They should just resign themselves to a lifetime of abuse and isolation due to their physical characteristics. Anything else is misogyny.
I promise if you just talk to girls you will meet one who likes you. It doesn’t even matter what you’re into, there’s someone for everyone out there.
This isn’t about me, it’s about a shitty, abusive message being repeated constantly on social media. Thanks for pulling an imaginary biography for me out of your ass, though. Really helpful.
You very clearly see something about yourself in this message. Especially since you’re being so reactionary about it. The fact that you’re so upset about how certain women view men is your own problem. Not theirs.
“This harmful generalization is bad for society”
“Clearly you only feel that way because it actually describes you personally”
Not only is that an unfair assumption, it’s also irrelevant to their claim.
Their claim is inherently irrelevant and reactionary. They were reactionary because they felt called out.
This is EXTREME hyperbole like I’ve rarely seen before.
Is all empathy secret projection for one’s own insecurity? Or only when the empathy is for someone who isn’t a member of a traditionally/systemically victimized group?
I’m apart of the don’t be a shithead crowd. Apparently a lot of men in this thread aren’t. And you all wonder why so many women are so terrified of men. You can’t even empathize with the fear and abuse they face at a systemic level.
Obviously you have a whole imaginary version of me in your head that you can carry on an argument with, so there’s no reason for me to waste any more of my time.
Just calling it as it is.
Holy shit, ad blockers are a thing, people. ublock origin and SponsorBlock for a safer, happier life! Browsing anything without blockers is akin to dripping dimethyl mercury on your genitalia, crossing your fingers, and wildly hoping for the best.
Dimethyl mercury? Oddly specific…
Ethyl… Tasty… May I have a sausage too?
“They’re in the walls!”
Nah, this is about predators, not aliens.
“Better a xenomorph than a human male!”
Game over, man! Or maybe… 😉
Am I not getting this ?
Gender-ragebait. Just post something about how persecuted you feel and move on.
“Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them“
I love how we used to worry about overpopulation as our apocalyptic societal problem of the future.
Thanks for the classification
The joke is rape
thus, should be glad of not getting it
Is it? I thought it was just “ugly men in your neighborhood”
If the take is “men don’t care and women are picky” then it’s a boomer joke. But it’s Cyanide and Happiness, soooo…
fair point
Which is perpetrated exclusively by single men!
I must’ve missed that part. Where does it say that only single men commit rape? Oh right it doesn’t. But you got defensive…. Which is suspect to say the least.
wow this discourse is cancer
Been like that on the internet since 4chan started breeding incels and cranking them into the world.
The best and worst things in the world came from Somethingawful back in the early 2000’s, we are still suffering the repercussions, up to and including the election of Trump.
Its Cyanide and Happiness. The comics history means we can safely assume the dark humor version is probably what they were going for.
The prior comment read very much like satire to me. I doubt anyone seriously believes single men are the only people that commit rape.
I always forget that going over the top with exaggeration will fly over the heads of the angriest people.
Where does it say that only single men commit rape
You mean the punchline?
That’s not the punchline. The audience doesn’t even know if the man on the laptop is a rapist, could be a stand up dude. The punchline is that you can’t market sex to women the same way you market sex to men. Why? Well maybe you should ask a woman.
Knowing this comic series, I think the punchline is that it guns up controversy and people waste effort arguing about it.
She’s locking the door. There’s more implication than failing to sell sex to women there
Please go discuss this comic with a woman.
It was a joke, maybe you have heard of them?
I’ve been married for two decades and just thought it would be funny if someone read way too much into the singles part. It isn’t like BTK, Trump, and other married rapists aren’t well known.
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That’s not sexist at all
In college, I saw a sign that said something like 1 in 6 women will be sexually assaulted. Based on conversations with women around me and my own experiences, I’m pretty sure it’s actually 6 in 6 women.
Before you get upset, yes, I am aware men get assaulted too. That’s not okay either.
I agree with this. Problem is that it is not done by most men, but this post makes it seem like most of them do or want to.
Interesting. I interpreted it differently.
I saw it as women experience assault at such high levels, that they feel unsafe around strangers.
Whereas, men see it as an exciting opportunity, full of possibilities. Not necessarily that they intend to commit assault.
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but this post makes it seem like most of them do or want to.
The people commenting on the post are making this implication, the comic itself is bland and dumb and has been overplayed for the last 30 years as a pretty standard joke about the differences between men and women and doesn’t really make a suggestion beyond “men and women have different concerns.”
The problem is we are all internalizing both perspectives in the most toxic, anti-social ways imaginable and isolating ourselves more and more and making the divide worse and worse every year.
This post makes it seem that women need to prepare for assault even if not everyone will assault them.
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Women would literally rather be stuck with a bear rather than a man they do not know. So, is it sexism? Or is there a fundamental problem (read patriarchy) that makes women scared of men.
Do you think it’s sexist to report that men commit 90% of all rape and sexual assault?
Its about as sexist to say that, as it is racist to spout crime statistics about black people without solution.
Okay not sexist at all then. Because there’s nothing racist about crime statistics about black people.
What people might do or say in regards to those statistics is typically where the racism comes in.
In a thread where the discussion is men, spouting statistics without solution is prejudicial.
Just like it would be racist to do the same thing with black people.
You’re being purposefully ignorant of the current thread we are in.
Oof. I really shouldn’t have to explain the systemic difference between the two.
Also once again, this comic is making the joke that a strange man could be a rapist, and that women are not interested in strange men the same way men may be interested strange women - not that all single men are rapists.
You’re purposefully conflating this comic to the level of hating men, and then to the level of using crime statistics to perpetuate systemic racism. Brother you’ve lost the plot.
Is the patriarchy not a systemic issue?
Bringing up statistics without a solution is problematic, to say the very least.
If you have issue with that statement, then you may need to rethink your approach.
YES! We’re getting to the same page. The difference is the patriarchy defends itself. I’ve never seen a black person fight to defend systemic racism.
That is way more than just patriarchal society. If a woman would rather be stuck in a room with a bear than a man she doesn’t know, there’s something psychologically wrong with that woman.
The only way you’d choose a bear over a stranger is if you have a prejudice that all men are violent or rapists. Because the bear will most likely kill you.
Bears are predictable, they will probably run from you or maul you. They don’t kill for pleasure, they don’t keep you alive for a game, they don’t torture you.
The point is a women doesn’t know you, or what your capable of. They do know what bears are capable of.
Women are painfully aware it’s “not all men”. But women also can’t read minds and don’t know your intentions. Can you really blame someone for erring on the side of caution?
Choosing the bear over a stranger isn’t prejudice, it’s avoiding the fear of the unknown.
You’re giving too much credit to bears. They can chomp your face just because they feelt like it, or out of pure curiosity, and won’t even notice you struggling to fight them off. Check some stories of zookepers and circus workers killed by them, you’ll find that wild animals are completely unpredictable.
So if I am being an asshole, I should make the “logical” jump that all single women are whores and sluts because majority of prostitutes are women.
Not all men and not all women. Generalising is never good.
when we talk about men being dangerous, it’s not in a “LITERALLY ALL MEN ARE EVIL RAPISTS” way.
it’s in a “treat every gun as if it were loaded” way.
That’s the same logic that has rounding up brown people in the US now. Some of them might be working for the cartels, so better treat every gun as if it were loaded.
Yes you are being an asshole thanks for noticing. Also wtf are you on about - no where does it say “ALL SINGLE MEN ARE RAPIST.”
You saw yourself in this comic and got defensive - that “whores and sluts” line came naturally to you.
This is the same reaction that I had when I saw the post that says “men are rapists”. I got offended.
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Ah there you are - this was never about defending men, this was about hating women. Also I’m a man lol
Defending women can involve hating men but not the other way round. Noted
Jeez dude you just don’t get it. There isn’t anything wrong with defending men but this comic doesn’t hate men. You thinking it does is part of the problem. This comic isn’t saying that all single men are rapists - hell we don’t even know if the single man they are showing is a rapist. What we, and women, do know is that men commit almost all SA. It’s a fact. The comic is playing into the fact that they market sex at men by saying “look strange women” and men fuck with it. Saying “look strange men” to women doesn’t typically illicit the same response.
The fact that you are so upset kinda makes me think you might be represented by this comic.
This is like saying that recognizing gay people are assaulted more often is homophobic
It really really isn’t the same thing. Stop strawmanning.
You’ve fallen for the classic blunder.
By jumping in and commenting, you have proven them right in their minds.
It’s a thought terminating trap. Women are allowed to call out sexism when they see it against themselves, whereas men are not allowed to call out sexism when they see it against themselves.
One user called me a rapist for this. Like wtf. How anything defending men can be converted to men are rapist pigs, is fascinating.
The reason these conversations are so unproductive is because some people take the wildest read of these jokes (“all men are rapists”) and get offended by them, when the surface reading (“men like the idea of meeting a random woman, women do not like the idea of meeting a random man”) is crystal clear and non-controversial. This joke could be from a Seinfeld opening monologue, it’s such a generic piece of observational comedy.
It takes five minutes to find data that shows that this is very much not sexism.
What data?
Number of dangerous outcomes when meeting a new person in a date by gender.
Violent crime by gender.
Rape events by gender.
Domestic break and entering by gender.
Pick your favorite?
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There is a massive underreporting of sexual abuse against men because men get taught from childhood that having sex is always something good and that they never should show weakness. Who is it that gratulates 15 year old boys when they get raped by a female teacher?
Because of bitches like you.
I’m a man, you moron. Care to provide any proof that data being reliably collected all across the world, using peer reviewed methodology, is flawed? That’s some bold claim. I’d love to see you prove violent crime rates between men and women are actually secretly the same.
Not the same sure, but I have a violent ex and it turns out she actually got one of her exes convicted by faking or possibly creating injuries to herself. Of the men she’s been violent with, nobody has reported her to the police. I know I haven’t. I don’t wanna be convicted of assault lol.
She proudly tells people how she abused me and I couldn’t do shit because I don’t hurt women, and I couldn’t leave her because she lied about being on the pill to get pregnant so she could abuse me financially too. Took me a while till I realized I can just take the baby and leave if I don’t wanna be a deadbeat. Equal parental rights.
This kind of shit doesn’t get reported. You’re not a man in the eyes of police if you go report it. You’re a pussy and deserve it. Now CPS though? VERY familiar with her, I’ve gotten multiple people to tell them what’s up.
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…?
I 100% agree with this data. Men commit more crimes of this nature than women. Problem is not with the data. Problem is that this data is not directly relevant here.
Most such crimes are committed by men but most men don’t commit such crimes. And the post implies that most men do.
And the post implies that most men do.
Not really. The image (which might I remind you is a comic strip, not some article published on Science or an opinion piece on the New York Times) implies that women feel very differently about “random strangers of the opposite sex near you right now!” than men do.
And that’s true, precisely because of the data you just agreed is valid. If I say to a guy friend “dude you’re not going to believe this, we were invited to a party with 50 girls and we will be the only two men!” he’ll have a profoundly different reaction than if a girl heard from a friend “girl you’re not going to believe this, we were invited to a party with 50 men and we will be the only two girls!”. It doesn’t matter to them, at this point, “oH nOt AlL MeN aRe DaNGeRoUs” what matters is that they’d be in a inherently more dangerous position than men would be in the opposite scenario.
The comic strip is noticing the difference in gut feeling and reaction, not proposing a thesis on men’s criminality.
And the post implies that most men do.”
I don’t agree this is the implication. The comic is juxtaposing how men might see a bunch of single women as an opportunity whereas women might see a bunch of single men as a threat. It doesn’t have to be all or even most men in that group for the threat to be real.
Also how is the data not relevant? The data is literally quantifying the problem this comic is addressing: this is a problem that disproportionately victimizes women and the perpetrators are often men, by a large margin. That is literally the basis for why the woman is unsettled whereas the man is relatively carefree.
It’s crazy how women say, “I don’t feel safe around men” and then men scream, “But not all men!!1!!1 I didn’t do it! Not me!!!” like why do y’all act like you’ve been wronged when women don’t want to be raped and assaulted? Stop making it about yourself.
Edit: Vote me down more, only proves that you’re pathetic :)
why do y’all act like you’ve been wronged
Because you equate “being around men” to “being raped”.
Which makes you sad and uninteresting to chat with. 👋If someone is judged as threatening based on their gender, they have been wronged. And what do you mean “stop making it about yourself”? Did they ask to be judged in the first place?
I have friends that get read as women who can’t do stuff that would be completely normal for any cis male (like going to a festival alone) because there is a real possibility of them being assaulted, murdered or at the very least getting harassed. And even if it is only one in a hundred men that would do such things it doesn’t matter if the other 99 do nothing to stop it.
I sense the argument coming, so I want to put something out there.
Let’s think about this using the game Among Us for a moment, hm? Forget about the gender war for a second, just think about Among Us.
In Among Us, there are, let’s say, ten people trapped on a space station, but one or two of them are actually aliens pretending to be human. Their job, naturally, is to eat the other humans, in addition to creating enough plausible deniability that they won’t be caught.
Now, some common arguments.
“Not all colorful little human beans are aliens trying to eat you.”
Well, we know that some of them are, and they really don’t want to be noticed. So, how do you avoid being eaten, then? That’s right, a little bit of paranoia. In this environment, a lack of trust becomes a survival skill by necessity.“The ‘alien’ problem is overblown. In fact, I think they barely exist.”
Well, we know, in this video game, that they do exist. The tic-tac people are not going to survive the game by pretending the aliens aren’t there. In fact, by refusing to accuse any of your friends, you are enabling the aliens to eat more of your people without consequence.“I agree that aliens are a problem, but why does it have to include me? I’m not one of them.”
Well, in Among Us, it is not possible to know who is or is not an alien on sight alone. You are forced to, by the game itself, demonstrate to other players that you are safe even in cases where you were never dangerous to begin with. Some kind of social etiquette is necessary when our other senses, our eyes for instance, cannot help us.“Thinking all your friends are aliens trying to eat you is prejudice. It’s kind of like being racist to black people.”
Well, unfortunately, in this video game, we know with certainty there are secret aliens trying to eat people. As with the point above, we’re not going to solve this problem by pretending they don’t exist. Is it a little bit unfair that other players are forced to distrust you? Maybe. But, you just can’t build trust on this space station without somehow pacifying the alien threat that is built into the game. Every player understands this dynamic.In real life, let’s imagine we have no idea whatsoever how often male aggression presents itself. We don’t know if there are or are not aliens.
We can agree, I would hope, that being an alien would be a bad thing, though, right? So, is it not enough to say “I will not be one of those men, and I will stop other people from being one of those men,” whether or not those men actually exist? At worst, you’ve committed to a fight that will never ask you to do any fighting.
You do not have to buy into the idea that most men are monsters to be an enemy of monstrous men. You do not need to concede that you are a monster to be an enemy of monstrous men.
If you insist on fighting about this, I have one or two ideas about that.
You don’t believe that monstrous men exist at all, so the paranoia is unjustified. Okay. I think that you’re in denial. Talk to some of the women in your life. Ask them about what they’ve dealt with.
You feel insecure and lonely because people naturally distrust you. I get that. That’s hard. Especially in a world where you can barely make friends without a car or money, that’s really tough. To a point I’ve made twice, though, if monstrous men are real, if they really exist, then this unfairness you’re subject to will not go away unless the thing that’s causing it is dealt with. This is a non-negotiable bit of math that you need to come to terms with.
At worst, you’ve committed to a fight that will never ask you to do any fighting.
Then why should i bother? Where’s all the women empowerment?
in a world where you can barely make friends without a car or money
Those aren’t friends… strange world you live in.
this unfairness you’re subject to will not go away unless the thing that’s causing it is dealt with.
Predators have existed since mankind has existed, it’s human nature (oh, wait, this is the internet, here’s a disclaimer: no, i’m not defending predators, i’m just saying they’ve always existed; yes, that’s bad).
So what you’re saying is this unfairness will not go away, ever. How nice.Here’s a third idea:
Most men aren’t predators.
No one likes being generalized and discriminated against.
Men will 99% of the times be suspected of being in the wrong whenever there’s any kind of gender conflict, even if they’re not in the wrong.As always, this specific topic needs nuance and cultural context, to say the least, which is something you generally don’t find on the internet.
I like this analogy so much and it’s so on-point. Thanks writing this up
Your analogy doesn’t include some important details for the subject. In the game, crewmates and imposters are on different teams and only one of them can win. It’s not “wrong” for an imposter to kill a crewmate because that’s how they play. All players support imposters killing crewmates because it’s what they signed up for. But in real life, we are on the same team. We are all crewmates doing our tasks, although I guess we have the option to kill each other. Acting as if someone doing their tasks near you wants to kill you is then a more meaningful personal judgement rather than just the impersonal scrutiny expected in a social deduction game.
More importantly, it’s relevant that this is one group of people making a judgement about another group of people based on group membership. So it would be like green crewmates assuming a red crewmate is an imposter on the basis of them being red, not any suspicious activity they have noticed. If crewmates had equal innate suspicion towards each other regardless of color (as should happen in the game) then there is no issue.
It’s not “wrong” for an imposter to kill a crewmate because that’s how they play.
This analogy is specifically from the perspective of crewmates. It is wrong for crewmates to die, actually, because this brings your team closer to defeat.
I think you might also think that I view the crewmates as women? No. The divide drawn here is between cooperative and uncooperative. Citizen and villain. The presence of imposters makes all crewmates less safe to be around. Unless you have ways of managing risk.
So it would be like green crewmates assuming a red crewmate is an imposter on the basis of them being red,
If the game were programmed such that red crewmates were exclusively the ones chosen to be imposters, regardless of how this might damage the video game’s fun, don’t you think that being near a red crew member would set off some alarm bells? Wouldn’t you think of green crew members as more safe?
I’ve played plenty of RPGs where certain kinds of treasure chest, and certain kinds of treasure chest alone, require a degree of caution because I cannot know if they are mimics.
This analogy is specifically from the perspective of crewmates. It is wrong for crewmates to die, actually, because this brings your team closer to defeat. I think you might also think that I view the crewmates as women?
No, I didn’t think you were making the crewmates just women. My point was, it’s not morally wrong for the imposters to kill in the game, because unlike real life, the sides are diametrically opposed and all players want their opponents to earnestly try to win. Crewmates don’t want imposters to just let them do tasks because then there would be no game. In that sense, killing crewmates is cooperating by making it a fun challenge for everyone. By the same token, it’s not morally wrong for crewmates to make accusations against people in meetings or otherwise treat them suspiciously, it’s how everyone wants others to play. But the moral weight to accusations in real life means it’s not ok to make them casually. There is a burden of proof to overcome.
If the game were programmed such that red crewmates were exclusively the ones chosen to be imposters, regardless of how this might damage the video game’s fun, don’t you think that being near a red crew member would set off some alarm bells? Wouldn’t you think of green crew members as more safe?
I don’t know where you are going with this. I guess my level of caution would depend on frequency of imposters. If half of red crewmates were imposters, sure. If it’s 1 in 1000, I wouldn’t be alarmed. But that’s not representative of real life either. Neither predators nor victims of sexual crimes are exclusive to any group. We could talk about statistics but this is about perception of threat and fear. They’re only very loosely tied to reality, especially when it comes to small samples like individual encounters with strangers.
I think the problem with your argument is the measure of paranoia. It’s 100% reasonable to be suspicious and cautious around men, strange or familiar, if you’re a woman. The issue I think most men have to this isn’t reasonable suspicion or reasonable caution, but rather the over the top reaction women online seem to have.
An example of this might be a youtube video about women checking into a hotel alone vs a man checking into a hotel alone. The man checks in and goes right to bed, the lock on the door automatically engages when the door closes. The example with the woman has her block the one way peephole, double check the deadbolt, brace a chair against the door handle, string a tight rope from the door handle to a firm anchor in the bathroom, unplug the phone, close the blinds, check that the mirror isn’t see through, and sweep the room for listening devices. You see this and think it must be satire, and it might be, but then you go into the comments and there’s a ton of women saying how true this is and how you gotta be careful of men when traveling alone. Every so often you’ll see a comment from a man about how this is insane and all the women respond how he’s privileged and doesn’t understand why women have to do all this.
No man is going to begrudge a reasonable reaction to strangers and safety, but relating to a comic about seeing a spam notification about singles in your area and locking your door is ridiculous. It’s this over the top reaction that men become offended by, not reasonable caution.
The issue I think most men have to this isn’t reasonable suspicion or reasonable caution,
What level of suspicion is reasonable?
Granted, I will not pretend that women are somehow above being very superstitious and silly. I’ve seen armored SUVs marketed to suburban house moms that are beyond parody. But still, for a demographic of people who largely do not have to deal with predatory men, being men themselves, how do men know what a reasonable degree of caution looks like?
but relating to a comic about seeing a spam notification about singles in your area and locking your door is ridiculous.
Well, this comic is… comedy. It has to be a little silly for the joke to land.
Locking the door with a common deadbolt has less to do with actually protecting anyone and more to do with being visual shorthand for a comedic sentiment.
Please forgive me, but I’m going to answer your post in the opposite order it was given.
I completely agree about the comedy and the satire of the original comic, I’m not opposed to it being over the top to deliver it’s comedic message. I’ll also say that the message is comedic in a dark way. The issue inherent to it is when you have people giving seemingly literal agreement to satirical statements, which is what a lot of these comments have devolved into. Your own post was 659 words, 44 lines, and 14 paragraphs obviously this discussion isn’t just about visual shorthand of a comic, it has some amount of real world investment.
As to your first question, I can’t give a concrete answer. As with many psychological things I can’t tell you what is a reasonable amount of suspicion, but I can say what is an overreaction. Similarly, I can’t tell you what a reasonable amount of collecting is, but I can spot hoarding. I can’t tell you what a reasonable attention to detail is, but I can spot an obsessive compulsive behavior. I’m not a doctor, and won’t pretend to be one, so I can’t tell you in definite terms what a reasonable suspicion is, but I can certainly identify an overreaction.
If someone sees an overly dramatic comic about women being fearful of men and their reaction is to defend the over dramatic behavior then that’s an overreaction. When men call out this behavior as overly dramatic and someone defends it, and in fact doubles down on it, then it’s clearly not just satire or a dark joke.
If we’re using the example of the hotel room I would venture to say that a reasonable level of suspicion would be to lock the door, turn the deadbolt, put the swing arm on, and don’t open the door for strangers. If you start getting into hiding, configuring contraptions, barring the door with chairs, and checking the mirrors to see if they are see through, that’s an overreaction in my book.
The issue inherent to it is when you have people giving seemingly literal agreement to satirical statements,
I will just take this at face value: what makes this an issue?
I don’t know if my neighbor has double-locked their front door, should I go and check?
this discussion isn’t just about visual shorthand of a comic, it has some amount of real world investment.
Yes, I am aware that jokes are political.
My reading is that this is yet another rearing of the man vs. bear debate. Our eternal prison.
so I can’t tell you in definite terms what a reasonable suspicion is,
I’m not asking for definite terms, I’m suggesting that women have more experience dealing with men and danger and dangerous men than men do. Men do have a lot of opinions about it, though.
If we’re using the example of the hotel room […] If you start getting into hiding, configuring contraptions, barring the door with chairs,
In the comic, she just engages the deadbolt.
It has been some hours since I last looked at this thread, but I imagine that men are not upset she’s being overly cautious, but rather that the comic is suggesting that they—they are taking this personally—are scarier people than women are. They are responding to hurt feelings.
And then when a woman is raped and murdered in her hotel room, men like you will be saying that she must have wanted it because she didn’t even take basic precautions to make sure no-one could get in.
So when women start taking these precautions, because generations of women before them have learnt from experience that when a man rapes you, it’s your fault for not taking precautions… men like you now complain that women are overly paranoid and making things worse for themselves, because their precautions are hurting your feelings.
First off, uh no I would not blame the victim for being raped and murdered and the fact that that is what you lead with is pretty telling. Next I think it’s really telling that you are saying the over reaction is “basic precaution.”
If a woman does a normal amount of precaution, such as locking the door and not opening it for strangers, that’s normal and perfectly reasonable. If the woman literally barricades herself in that’s insane. In either case, if she is attacked or raped it’s not her fault and but that doesn’t mean overreaction isn’t overreaction.
sdbiybt
Sure, but that’s more a reaction to the comic than the comic itself.
I see the comic as expressing a morbid, comedic irony in reciprocal situations between the sexes: non-threatening in one case yet threatening in the other indicating a deeper issue in society.
People don’t like being generalized, especially based on something they didn’t choose.
Well women don’t choose to get raped!
Oh yes, based on that logic, I got cheated, so every women is a whore.
I don’t feel safe around muslims because some of them are jihadists.
Literally. It’s the bear thing all over again. If you’re offended by stuff like this, you’re basically telling on yourself.
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