A recent synthesis argues that excessive handwashing and sanitizers can alter skin/gut microbiomes, which in turn influence immune signaling and cognition.
My missus says I got sick because I dropped a wet teabag on the kitchen floor and then still used it, but imagine the gut biome! (It’s still terrible and I have IBS)
Recent synthesis? From 2018?
The study quoted doesn’t say anything of what the headline suggests. It’s a lab study on nitrate walls on a petri dish. Also quotes a study linking correlation (not causation) of higher anxiety with over sanitization of hands…during covid, when everyone had heightened anxiety. And the difference is not statistically significant.
Sorry, but this one is a dud. None of the sources support the thesis of the essay. Just wash your gross hands.
Yeah this is mostly fud. People read how folks on farms have fewer infections and have better health outcomes and take things way too far.
People on farms have greater and more diverse gut microflora (commensals as they’re called sometimes). This is in part because of exposure to animals and nature, and also possibly in part due to lower levels of pro inflammatory things you might find in cities (think, air pollution, microplastics [they of course have them too now]).
Good bacteria is good for you. Bad bacteria is bad for you. Viruses will mess you up and the best protection is not infection but vaccines. People truly believe that infections make their immune system stronger. That’s almost surely not true. The only thing that really makes you stronger are vaccines and getting a huge amount and diversity of good microflora.
If we can solve the probiotic space really well (which is difficult, really fecal transfer seems to be the only reliable method at this point), then really there is zero concern about over sanitation. Even as it is. There shouldn’t be that much concern about it.
Absolutely, I also forgot to mention. Over sanitation, to the levels mentioned very— extremely, I cannot stress enough how brief of a mention it is—briefly on the quoted article are more of a concern for surgeons. Doing 25 surgeries on a day means scrubbing as many times. Sure, these doctors do develop skin issues due to over sanitation of hands. But your average Katie and Joe are not scrubbing to chirurgical sterile conditions when using some alcohol gel a couple times a day. They’ll be fine.
Gut microbiota? That’s zero percent to do with washing hands and 100% with what you eat. Just eat a healthy, balanced and mostly fresh ingredients based diet. Get a ton of yogurt in there if you want to support your gut team. Not washing your hands will not give you good bacteria, but it will give you parasites that will absolutely fuck up your gut microbiome.
People, just wash your damn hands.
I’ve long said that the key to a healthy immune system is to give it lots of exercise.
I attribute my immune system to my time spent in uni playing beer sports like beer pong.
We played with beer in the cup, not like the pansies who played with water and side drinks. So that ball that was often rolling all over the floor got splashed into the beer with cups who knows how many have drank out of before. And we happily drank that beer down. Usually there was just a side cup of water we just dipped the ball in if it got covered in dust or hair from the floor before resumed play.
I never got sick and never really do.
Classic sci-fy novel The Heart of the Comet has the lead doctor releasing tailored cold “challenge viruses” to keep the crew’s immune system up. (They were in a space ship, nothing much organic around to grow bacteria.)
People today think “bacteria BAD” and try to live like bubble boy. Then they wonder why they’re sick and allergic to everything. Most y’all, particularly the younger set (I think?) would be appalled at how little I give a fuck about bacteria.
I don’t want to sound like an antivaxxer, but, “I hAve aN ImmuNe SySTem!” And so do you.
Only time I go full-court press on bacteria is when I have a flesh wound. I get hurt a good bit, especially on my hands, gotta heal that kinda thing fast.
Then they wonder why they’re sick and allergic to everything.
Well, sleeping times out of sync with your chronotype and the daily rhytmus (daylight being the trigger) plays a major role there too.
Think this is an astute way to go about things!
Absolutely. I’ve read some studies suggesting that small exposures, like a few minutes of cold water immersion or playing in the dirt can actually train your immune cells to respond more quickly.
Especially important as child. That’s why they like to play in mud and (one reason they) stick everything in the mouth, the gut biome playing a major role here.
that parts fine but man Im washing my hands.
Mostly, I just don’t like cleaning. ;)
On the other hand, I know someone who got a minor cut on their hand while gardening and two days later went into sepsis. Surgery to drain puss from joints and three months in hospital.
That’s a tough experience, I’m sorry to hear about your acquaintance. You’re right though, in open wound situations, cleaning and treatment are VITAL. The point here is more about how daily handwashing can become excessive…absolutely not recommending avoiding hygiene altogether.
Yup! Studies like these are why I specifically buy non-antibacterial hand soap. It’s still soap so it cleans just fine, including wounds, but it doesn’t have these effects.
ALL soap is antibacterial. And you’re right, you don’t need the extra bullshit. Whole thing is a marketing gimmick, and I’m old enough to remember when it began.
Soap pops their little lipid cell walls. I want to ask the antibacterial soap people, “So, uh, does that shit pop their cell walls harder?”
It’s the difference is shooting someone in the face with a 12-gauge and insisting an RPG is what’s really needed.
Smart move! Are there any specific brands you’d recommend?
I roll my own Castile soap. Recipes abound if you’re interested. All you need is olive oil and a bit of lye, cheaper in bulk of course. Follow the recipe, pour into cheap silicone molds of your choosing, wait. If you have enough molds and make a big batch, an hours work yields a year+ supply.
There’s another chemical I’m adding next, kinda expensive per gram, only takes a pinch per batch, supposed to harden it in days instead of weeks.
Best part is the bar lasts forever. Haven’t made any in awhile, but I’d forget how old the bar was when I finally replaced it. And that was without the hardening agent! Using Irish Spring, I’m clocking a bar a week.
Also, gets you really clean without feeling harsh or drying your skin. No idea how this voodoo works on a chemical level. But the fear of “lye” soap is a modern old-wives tale. Maybe it was harsh in great-grandma’s time? In any case, the lye is no longer lye after it all reacts.
PROTIP: There is a load of water in commercial bar soap. Step-mom would take it out of the waxy cardboard and leave it open in the cabinet. Dries out, lasts longer, feels no different. Takes months to dry enough to notice, buy ahead of time.
I started using (diluted) castile for everything including handwashing, I’ve been liking it.
I roll my own. See my comment above. I’m broke, but I’m getting some olive oil tonight. Spending way too much on Irish Spring. Bar a week vs. a bar every month or two.
Huge fan of castile soap so far too
Honestly soap is extremely effective on it own already at dealing with remove debris and killing exposed cells, I don’t see the need to doing more that unless the aim is surgical/biolab env.
How do you deal with dryness from the castile though?
One of the features of using your own soap! Dilute more if your hands are getting too dry – I like 1:5 dilution for my foaming hand soap pumps, that’s been working well for me. This will change depending on how long you wash your hands for; I use a whole 10-15s even at home so I reduced the concentration. I’m not sure what the “minimum” concentration is for it to be effective, but I just tweaked it so my hands don’t feel oily. If you need it to be highly dilute for sensitive skin, you could consider keeping a very light solution for frequent washing and a separate stronger concentration for more dirty hands.
This is awesome insight, thank you!
Appreciate the recommendation! I’m going to look into it.
Not really. For the most part, soap is soap.
That’s unthinkably rare.
Sending this to my wife. I already consider myself a bit of a germaphobe in public spaces, but she’s 2x more.
Though i did get an eye infection with lasting sensibilities from a publich trash can.
my wife and I are maskers so. thing is we would get sick every year before covid and when the requirements started being relaxed we realized we had made it three years without being sick. Ultimately its been 7 years and we have been sick once and that was due to her being asked to remove it at the physical therapists place while doing this test and someone there was sick. So like I don’t feel like a germaphobe as much as a notbeingsickophile.
🤣 mine is too, she has a stash of sanitizer at my aunt’s house who we generally only see once a year over the holidays.
I wash my hands with plain soap, dish or bar soap usually. My wife wraps dinner and leaves it on the table overnight. From time to time, I get into seriously nasty anaerobic bacteria while outside. I always putting random stuff in my mouth. Don’t always wash my hands after I piss since my hands have more bacteria than my dick. I’ll drop food on the floor and pop it in my mouth.
And I simply don’t get sick. Main things that hit me are related to my fucked up, former smoker lungs. Observed COVID protocols for the duration, wasn’t worried about washing my hands more than normal, just now got it 2 months ago.
