Supposedly AI is going to take all the jobs and yet it still can’t do this task which it seems perfect for. Sure, eventually AI will get good enough to do it in the future, but there is just way too much hype given the reality of the current situation. This is a job that fast food workers are already required to do in addition to other duties, so it’s not like it’s labor saving from the company’s perspective either.
There is no certainty that LLMs can overcome the current limitations they are stumbling on.
I think developments in AI will come but there is no guarantee they will. They seem to be suffering from the Pareto Principle just like self-driving car ML models and this despite huge investments.
100% this. The base algorithms used in LLMs have been around for at least 15 years. What we have now is only slightly different than it was then. The latest advancement was training a model on stupid amounts of scraped data off the Internet. And it took all that data to make something that gave you half decent results. There isn’t much juice left to squeeze here, but so many people are assuming exponential growth and “just wait until the AI trains other AI.”
It’s really like 10% new tech and 90% hype/marketing. The worst is that it’s got so many people fooled you hear many of these dumb takes from respectable journalists interviewing “tech” journalists. It’s just perpetuating the hype. Now your boss/manager is buying in =]
Breakthroughs are so interesting and the reason predicting the future of tech is so hard. Text embedding and “Internet scale” training are likely the things that allowed this AI boom and the amazing initial results.
I think many people see AI (and other tech) moving linearly from the current point forward but any software developer knows this is rarely the case. And no one can predict the next breakthrough.
It doesn’t help the hype and confusion around ML/LLM/AGI. And because on the surface LLMs seem intelligent people misunderstand their capabilities (much like politicians). They certainly have fantastic uses just as they are now but a lot of people are overly optimistic (or pessimistic depending on your point of view) of our new “AI overlords”.
Personally, LLMs are absolutely amazing at supporting me in my professional writing. I don’t let it do my work but it helps me play around to find a better way to express some things like if I had a sparing writing partner.
I actually went to a mcdonalds that did this. It was overall way more slow and annoying. I would be willing to make that concession if knew that it was something to worked towards a better future for humans, but all its means is that someone is getting fired under capitalism. Also it failed to understand if I wanted sauce and just referred me to someone actually working.
I’ve heard a few instances in which “AI” is just a bunch people responding to a voice to text feed in the Philippines.
So much of this isn’t really technology. It’s just a new kind of service sector outsourcing.
I don’t think that replacing order taking positions is stealing anyone’s job, in fast food at least. I worked at a fast food joint one time. We were always shorthanded and we always had to do order taking while doing a bunch of other things. It was such bullshit. From an overworked employee perspective, if there was any way to get out of doing drive through orders while doing all my other tasks, I would be happy to use it.
They will still be short staffed and overworked. The company isn’t outsourcing the drive through out of the kindness of their hearts in order to lighten the workload on the employees.
Still order like grandpa. I go in and want to talk to a human and order. I hate those gross ass touchscreens. I am probably a minority especially in my age group and working in tech
I am a touch screen enjoyer. At least in theory. I like having time to browse, look at pictures, easy access to customization options and most importantly no feeling of pressure. I am not spending a cashier’s time and potentially blocking someone behind me (at least there is usually less of a line for the self-ordering).
However there are negatives for sure. My biggest annoyance is that these devices are often annoyingly slow and unresponsive. They just display a tiny bit of text and images, they should switch between screens at 60fps, not 2s per click. Also if I know what I want it is often faster to tell the cashier and let them enter the order (on their more expert-optimized and less laggy keypad).
They just display a tiny bit of text and images, they should switch between screens at 60fps, not 2s per click.
I think this is intentional. They want you to take time looking at the pictures so you might think “you know what, actually I’d like some of those fries as well” by making it hard to just quickly select what you want and leave.
I wouldn’t even be surprised if there’s a psychological effect where you feel like ordering more makes this tedious ordering process more worthy. I mean why go through 2 minutes of clicking and waiting just for one stupid cheeseburger.
I find this a bit odd as you make it seem as if ordering is a complicated process that takes some thought and planning. The whole draw of McDonalds is that you get the exact same food wherever you may be and their options are fairly limited. Ham/cheeseburger, chicken burger, fish sandwich, or nuggets is pretty much your array of options.
I personally dislike the ordering screens as they make the process way to drawn out. Let me just pick a #1, the size, and the drink and be done with it in 3 taps. Last time I used one, it wanted me to basically build my own meal as if I was ordering Dominoes online and building my own pizza.
As I said if you know what you want the cashier is usually faster and easier. However I don’t eat at any single fast food place very often. So even if I know sort of what I want I don’t remember exactly what toppings, flavours and sizes are available. If I was ordering I would probably just pick whatever common order I would expect can work, but I appreciate that I can see a list of options and do a bit of browsing.
their options are fairly limited. Ham/cheeseburger, chicken burger, fish sandwich, or nuggets is pretty much your array of options
You must not have been to a McDonald’s in a while. Do you want that chicken sandwich grilled or crispy? Spicy? Are we talking the basic value sammich you can wolf down before you leave the parking lot, or the bigger one that comes in a cardboard box? The one with bacon and ranch, or one of the others? Did you want a combo meal? Lettuce is stupid filler on a sandwich, do you want to skip that?
This is why I tend to just use the mobile apps for places to order. Not laggy and gives the benefits you mentioned of using a touch screen kiosk. A lot of them you don’t even need an account to use the app which is nice if that’s something that bothers you.
The apps are super slow though. Like I don’t need a 5 second animation of bouncing fries every time I do anything. Dunkin is another offender.
Always wondered why anyone would rather talk to a person than take their time, have a nice overview of the menu, and pay in advance. I guess they are gross though.
Because I’m at a fast food place in the first place because my time is important and I don’t want to waste it ordering.
That and the guy taking orders does it 1000x a day and i can easily order that way instead of me navigating ten different menus just to order a simple meal for my family.
I’m OK with my old man status at this point. Tech is good when it improves things for the consumer. The kiosks seem to just improve the company bottom line IMO.
The only time I would rather not talk to a person is if the accent causes a language barrier. Otherwise 9 times out of 10 a person is going to understand what you want better especially if it’s a customization issue
At least in my experience I have more customization issues when taking to people rather than using an app or going through a kiosk. The only time it’s the other way around is when they don’t include an option I want on the digital version but that’s becoming less and less common for me at least. The number of times I’ve had orders just missing customization things I asked for but they didn’t hear or forgot to enter is much higher when I go through the drive through or go in person then when I do it through something digital.
AI so bad it can’t get your burger order right.
No wonder people are sinking hundreds of billions into it. As opposed to, say, education.
Why not just have a touchscreen menu then? You already need large screens so people can confirm the AI recorded their order correctly and this will skip the need of a person manning the drive through menu. You could even include options to “hold the pickle”, etc.
Or like a mobile app that works reliably and doesn’t completely suck?
Or a mobile app that doesn’t force people to waive their rights to sue on October 23rd, 2023
Yes, 👍 apps.
The issue with touchscreen kiosks is that some have short arms.
On another note, I get the benefits of computer-voice-operated drive-thrus. No need to use your phone. If your phone’s 🔋 is 3%, you can still buy food.
I’ve often wondered this, they have them inside all the stores here but not on the drive throughs
Maybe it’s an issue of weatherproofing, or maybe vandalism?
Maybe, but they already have screens there so this wouldn’t change much. I guess reaching a screen from your car could be a bit awkward though.
Maybe it’s just me, maybe I’m getting old. But I want to order through a person. Not a touchscreen and not AI.
I feel like society is slowly removing humans from our everyday interactions and I don’t like it.
I like the touch screen ordering systems, but thats probably just because im autistic and find human interaction tough :p Im glad its an option, but it shouldnt be the only one for accessibility reasons.
I like touchscreens because I can spend more time getting my order right without wasting the cashier’s time.
I don’t want to talk to a cashier and have them explain the difference between a bacon sandwich supreme, and a bacon burger deluxe.
I don’t want to confuse them by asking for extra veggies and watch them put it on the side.
I don’t want to argue that I asked for two packs of ketchup and they gave me BBQ.
I want to add onions to my mcchicken and can’t do that with the touchscreen :( literally not an option
It’s fine when what you want is on the menu. But as soon as you have a question or need something a little bit off menu (hold the tomatoes, does that have nuts in it? I’m allergic, this food came out cold can I get another?) the glorified vending machine doesn’t work.
I prefer a touchscreen in general. Although I realize that different companies have better or worse systems. I read complaints about self checkout in the USA and scratch my head since in Holland self checkout is lovely.
Trying to use AI is a dumpster fire though.
I love ordering through touch screens. No mis hearing and everything goes much quicker.
The added value of that human interaction for me personally is 0.
The kinds of places that get touchscreen kiosks often have teenagers taking your order who are not paid or trained enough to give any shits about any of it. The touchscreen saves both of you from doing the worst part of the whole process.
Adding onions to a mcchicken is impossible through a touchscreen. Can easily be done if I talked to a person
I mean if I really need onions on a mcchicken I can still order at the front but then I have to deal with trying to get my specialty order across, which is even more hassle. Mainly I want no salt on my fries and no sauce on my burger.
Trust me, you don’t need that shit. Melted cheese is good sauce and the residual salt in the fries tray is plenty, and you’ll get fresh fries every time.
I wouldn’t mind letting a “robot” do that kind of work. In a perfect world that would mean less work. In the real world it means they van fire some people and make even more money. But then again, i would never eat at McDonald’s anyway, so it’s hard to boycott
I just don’t want to talk to a robot. Not over the phone, not in a drive-through.
Sounds like a closeted robosexual to me. You don’t need to deny it! I’d fuck a robot too. Maybe just the chick from Tron Legacy
You won’t know.
Maybe eventually, but I do now.
I think those kiosks with the big touch screen and the mobile apps work pretty well already, I always rather use them and see a picture what I can order instead of talking to the person.
I fucking hate them.
They’re designed for people who are about 5’0". They take so much longer than speaking the order to a person, especially if you have any customizations to add/remove.
0/10, avoid at all costs.
For me it’s the exact opposite, most of them have the possibility to change the language to English, even though it’s only partially translated I still can see the pictures of what I’m trying to order. If I need to look at the Korean menu and then speak Korean to the person to order, then I would just go away, especially if they don’t have pictures on the menu.
For me it’s use 10/10 (even the crappy ones)
tbh I’d rather not see the picture when it comes to mcdonald’s, as it can only lead to a disappointment
Fuck all, I hate those things. Just pay a teenager to take my order with a judgemental expression. I hate self checkouts, I hate self order kiosks, no I do not want to use a phone app to place my order, I just want a double cheeseburger with no pickles GODAMMIT
I use them but they are definitely made to be annoying.
- Start
- No I don’t use a mobile app
- Takeaway
- Burgers
- Big Mac menu
- Fries
- Cola
- Add to basket
- No I don’t want extra
- Pay
- No I don’t want extra
- Pay here
- Pay with credit card
- Finally pay
- Printer is not working
- Oh what was my number?
I prefer just saying “can I get a medium #2 combo, please.” And being done with it.
That may be fine for regular customers, but what about the rest of us who don’t have the menu memorized?
The menu is 6 foot across, above the counter where you order, glowing, with pictures of each item and number next to it. Even someone who couldn’t read could order food using the normal system.
I’ve literally ordered by signing a number with my fingers to indicate the item I wanted in a country where I don’t speak the language at a fast food franchise I’d never been to before.
The menu is 6 foot across, above the counter where you order, glowing, with pictures of each item and number next to it
And changing pages while you’re trying to parse the cacophony of choices and options.
Most menus are fixed paper with back lighting not changing displays, most of the places that have the new displays added them at the same time as the touch screen stations.
I’ve stopped waiting in drive thrus because it’s faster and more convenient to order it ahead of time and pick it up inside.
I used the Mcdonalds app a few times and the drivethru was always faster, lmao.
They require location services and don’t start cooking until you’re inside their geofence, but IME they seem to still prioritize drivethru customers.
Why would they in the first place? What’s wrong with a touchscreen menu to take an order?
Then, of course, I’m not sure such places fundamentally even need human personnel other than maintenance techs. Standard ingredients, prepackaged I think, standard hardware to cook, standard everything. It can just be a huge burger-selling machine with no human in sight.
Lots of their drive thrus use a person to take the order, and at a busy drive thru this becomes a dedicated person or persons just to take orders. If they can flip it to AI then they could open more lanes and reduce staff. Problem is that a skilled person is going to be better than AI over a shitty audio system, look at how Alexa and Siri struggle even when they have an optimized reception setup than the crappy setup you have at a drive thru with the person sitting inside their car, with music on and so on.
“I’m sorry, can you repeat that?”
“I’m sorry, can you repeat that?”
“I’m sorry, can you repeat that?”
I personally HATE those places where you walk inside and you need to use the stupid touchscreen. I’ve asked someone to take my order, they say no. So I get in the car and go to the drive through where you still get a person taking your order.
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Not the OP but for me it takes like 4 times longer to use the tuch screen. Find the button for what i want. Do you want to super-sized? Do you want fries with that? How are you paying today? Blah blah blah whereas with the counter its me saying one sentence and them pushing 2 buttons.
A lot of people seem to be misinterpreting the headline given the content of the article:
It told Restaurant Business it was testing whether the voice ordering chatbot could speed up service and that the test left it confident “that a voice-ordering solution for drive-thru will be part of our restaurants’ future.”
This is just saying that they are ending their 2021 partnership with IBM for AI drive thru.
Not that they are abandoning AI for drive thru.
Drive through seems like a great proving ground. Record every drive through customer / cashier interaction. Match each recording up with the transaction entered into the register. Train a model by having the model “listen” to the recording to predict what the order should look like, then match it to the items on the transaction receipt.
Then, phase 1 of implementation is to use the model in real time by listening to the live conversation at the drive through, predicting what it thinks the order should be, then prompting the cashier to double-check the order to see if the human made a mistake entering the order if the prediction doesn’t match.
Phase 2 is human-supervised, where the order taking system interacts directly with the customer to take the order, the human checks the result, and is able to step in / take over if there’s a mistake or a special case the order system can’t handle.
Phase 3 is “fuck your entry level employment” and no human is monitoring the system.
All 3 phases seem completely doable to me at this point, depending on how much backlash MCD is willing to deal with.
I suspect that even if they were abandoning future plans for AI drive through ordering, they wouldn’t say they were. Saying you’re not doing anything with AI might actually hurt a companies share price right now.
Two stories like this–as in, “oops AI sucks actually”, in about as many weeks. (The other one was about Amazon shutting down their Just Walk Out mechanical turk nonsense.)
I think we’re starting to see the tide turn against Altman’s big con.
I liked this quote BTW:
the test left it confident “that a voice-ordering solution for drive-thru will be part of our restaurants’ future.”
lmao you… already have one of those? So the subtext of this message is “we can’t just say AI was a terrible idea but yeah, we’re going back to the shit that worked before”
Translation: the AI was worse at it than even Drunk Steve after a 3-day bender.
