Imo, both can be true and both are true. It’s a vicious cycle. In a general sense, women are tired of men and men are tired of women.
It’s so obvious to everyone that far-right men are driving women to the left that it’s not even worth mentioning in the midst of well adjusted, moderate people. It’s a fact that normal people kind of just intrinsically know. Ask literally anyone who doesn’t own a MAGA hat if they think far-right men are driving women to the left and they’ll probably respond with something along the lines of “uhhh yeah… no fucking duh?”
Amongst well adjusted men, accepting responsibility for their role in social issues is the status quo. Every man I know who still has color in their hair puts a conscious effort toward avoiding problematic behavior and rectifying the issues their fathers and grandfathers perpetuated. There is universal acknowledgement of the situation at hand.
You know what I almost never see? I almost never see women acknowledge that they too play a part in this awful dynamic that affects all of us. Granted, in the past 2 years I have known women who acknowledge that the problem does indeed affect society as a whole. But never do I see an acknowledgement of mutual culpability. It’s still always framed as something men are doing that they could stop at any moment if they choose.
I mentioned the status quo amongst normal people. The reason the idea that women are pushing men to the right triggers such a response is because this idea is in opposition to the status quo, and this has got to change because it is definitely true. Young men are tired of the callousness toward their very real issues, tired of being made to feel like villains, and they are eager to be in the company of people who value them.
I’m firmly left wing. Not nearly tankie level but much further than the average milquetoast socdem. I really truly do not feel welcome here. I’m here because I’ve developed strong opinions that persist IN SPITE of how unwelcome I feel in leftism, feminism, and progressivism in general. Young men who are freshly sentient and just starting to form opinions will absolutely be swayed by the emotions they are made to feel when interacting with more opinionated people.
I know that most people will not read more than the first quarter of this message without writing me off as right wing or saying “oh boo hoo poor men nobody cares” or it will be assumed that I’m writing this to inflame. I’m not. I’m writing this because I love people so fucking much and it breaks my heart on a daily basis to see this rift growing larger and larger more and more rapidly. Every individual of every gender is at fault here. Our society is deeply sick. We need to escape our echo chambers and have some real talk. Trying to weigh who is more evil and who is more good is futile, useless, and only serves as a distraction from our healing. Please get it straight: We all fucking suck. The only thing we can do now is try to understand each other and foster real compassion. Posting snide tweets offers temporary relief but it helps nothing.
This rant hat got me thinking, and I feel like many points you make should in fact be considered more.
Thank you for taking the risk of sticking out your neck and stating this in public.
I dig the message
but whenever I see someone identifying as radfems I get scared they are doing transphobic stuff. And I was right again. I dont think promoting content creators that participate in trans hate is the way to go. I hope the radfem movement as a whole manages to deal with this better.
If you are interested in receipts let me know via comment or dm
receipts, cw transphobia
Based on this post I would say the Instagram Account radfemverity is run by the same person
radfemverity promoted several other radfem acocunts, multiple are very transphobic
radfemverity also posted some transphobic:
If anyone has questions why I think some of those posts are transphobic, feel free to ask. If anyone needs image descriptions, also feel free to ask in a comment, maybe we as a community manage to do them together.
It’s interesting that the focus from transphobes seems exclusively on trans women rather than trans men. Like, looking at the tumblr another user linked, I saw this account reblogged someone who said basically she didn’t like penis and if that made her a terf then okay. I’m guessing that doesn’t mean she’d pursue a relationship with a trans man just because he didn’t have a dick.
Similarly, I don’t hear the “NO MEN IN WOMEN’S SPORTS” crowd getting in their feelings about trans men wanting to compete in men’s sports, or mentioning trans men at all.
Transmen do face discrimination, and it’s often times violent, though you’re correct, they generally aren’t the focus. I think that there are a couple of factors at play with the focus on transwomen. The first factor is, from their point of view, transwomen are viewed as an attack on masculinity, both as a rejection of “traditional” masculinity and the “scary” thought that they might be attracted to a transwoman. Furthermore, there is an often unspoken acknowledgment among transphobes of different stripes that men are inherently dangerous, that their violence is barely contained by the rigid structures of society. In this world view, a transwoman is both rejecting her masculinity while also attempting to subvert the structures of society to act out on her violent masculine impulses. It’s contradictory, moronic, and plain wrong in the assumptions made, but that is their world view.
I saw this account reblogged someone who said basically she didn’t like penis and if that made her a terf then okay
Whoa, that is not what that link showed. What it showed was her reblogging a post that called trans women sex entitled incel men.Different post, my bad!
The reblog in question.
My bad, I thought you were talking about the post I linked.
Those receipts…
Oof. Biiiig oof. Wow.
I’d definitely like some receipts. Not because I don’t believe you, but because I think it’s a good idea to expose this stuff.
https://www.tumblr.com/radfemverity/778042866158141440/httpsmobiletwittercomkirakiradollstatus9905
CW for transphobia, obviously.
Edit: OP comment has been updated with much more extensive documentation, and the tumblr account does say they’re more active on instagram.
Added them to my original comment
Young men are turning to alt right because young need have no role models or support systems.
They have role models… they’re just horrible ones. The tates and Petersons realized they could exploit that void and do it purposefully
Maybe making supporting a family impossible with less than 4 incomes was a bad idea?
Back to blaming each other? Have you missed the billionaires buying up newspapers and supporting fascist political parties around the world?
A lot of the anti-feminism stuff aimed at young men are massive strawmans.
Disagree. People would not have turned to the far right in the 2010s if we had done feminism better. Small changes in strategy would have gone a long way – like being more welcoming to straight white men in the 4th wave feminist movement. In contrast, people turning to feminism at that same time was inevitable, since the status quo was (and is) racist, anti-feminist, and anti-lgbt.
This post is just an attempt to not own up to how the left could have been smarter and done better.
Of course things always could have been done better, but I still need to see any evidence for this:
Small changes in strategy would have gone a long way – like being more welcoming to straight white men in the 4th wave feminist movement.
Considering those are just “small changes”, there should be examples of groups, contexts, communities, parties, regions or social circles that actually done that and succeeded though it in a quantifiable way. I constantly see talk about this concept of appealing to the white straight male, but never see any actual effective examples. (Maybe this would be a fitting question for !mensliberation@lemmy.ca …)
I say it’s a “small change” because I think it’s a small but vocal group of people who are unwelcoming to people of privilege. (Of course, that’s a moronic strategy – since privilege is power, you want privileged people on your side.) I think it would require the right meme (in the dawkins sense) to get people to call out those who are unwelcoming – but instead I think the unwelcoming ones had (and still have) the memetic advantage. Privilege = bad is a powerful idea, so you don’t see groups of any appreciable size which have this as the winning philosophy. But if the idea were usurped by a more powerful idea – that could be a small change, just requires someone to think of exactly the right meme.
I’m gonna out myself here.
I got a lot of shit from a small handfull of 4th wave feminists because I decided that I preferred monogamy over open relationships. I got shit because the things I enjoy doing are traditionally masculine, things like firearms, longsword fencing, motorcycles, weightlifting… I was told that leaving poly relationships for monogamy meant I had ‘toxic jealousy’, and my enjoyment of traditionally masculine past times meant that I was engaging in ‘toxic masculinity’ (or, alternatively, ‘toxic heteronormativity’). Were they using those terms wildly incorrectly? Sure. But that’s not actually relevant. They were attempting to shame me for choices that I was making for myself. There was no point where I told other people that they couldn’t make choices for themselves, but I certainly got told that my choices for myself were wrong.
Is this all 4th wave feminists? Of course not. I’m old enough to realize that the people I knew aren’t representative of all feminists, or even a majority. But just like the ‘not all men’, there are enough, and they’re vocal. They do real damage to young men by telling them that, by simply existing and being traditionally masculine–even when they support women’s rights–that they are the problem.
I don’t know how to prevent that small number of people from doing an outsized amount of damage, short of trying to be inclusive to everyone, regardless of gender, gender identity/expression, or sexual orientation.
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well i used to believe that feminism would actually improve the living conditions of women. now i’m not so sure anymore.
partially that is because of the economic outlook. i have a bad view of the economy in the next 10+ years and deeply believe in a recession. (not because of what Trump is doing, i already held that stance before). women in employment is a phenomenon of the last 55 years, really, starting in 1970, not because women finally liberated themselves, but because the economy (i.e. big companies) launched a psyops to manipulate women to work, because that increases the number of available workers, and by the principle of the market a higher supply in workers leads to falling prices (wages) for human labor. i have that view because i’m disillusioned how much stuff happens in the US purely or mostly because of the economy’s meddling with things.
i mean, they overthrew governments to get cheaper fucking bananas. who says they wouldn’t launch a few “women’s magazines” and radio interviews to incite women to go to work?
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but i’m deviating from the post:
the social contract is an implicit contract that says that people take care of each other. it is the thing that defines society, and without it, there is no society. so it must be upheld. i’m pretty sure that the social conflict that “feminism” has started - that says that “all man are bad” - is a severe damaging to the social contract.
and i just want to note, that if the social contract breaks, civil war might be a consequence, and as always in any war, women would suffer the most.
Do we actually know which version is correct though?
Why does one have to be correct? It seems like both are happening.
I don’t know, maybe both are correct indeed. It’s just that the post seems to be making a point that only one of the statements is true and I was wondering whether we actually know that.
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Thank God there are plenty of men out there who’ll correct us.
You’re welcome 🫡
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