No, adopt ones that are unwanted. Then it’s not your fault that they exist, but they still need help.
Adopt as many kids as possible. Turn them into ninjas.
And the Eurotrash is saying we ain’t doing anything.
They just say they want you to have kids. They don’t actually want that. If they wanted you to have kids they wouldn’t have made everything so expensive. The tech oligarchs want a post-human world where they rule fiefdoms.
I think that credits them with having a coherent plan besides “MOREEEE! MOOOOOOORE!!!”
They want people to have more kids… but only white kids… but not only white kids, because they need to maintain the school-to-prison pipeline… but they don’t want anyone to have enough money to want to have kids, except them… but it’s okay, the humanoid robots will be slaves instead… but the humanoid robots don’t actually work and are just piloted by people from India, one of the few industrialized countries which doesn’t have an aging population… but clearly there’s nothing we could learn from them, so maybe if we offered broke Americans $2,000 to have a baby… what do you mean $2,000 isn’t enough to raise a baby, how many pencils could they really need… what do you mean baby formula plants are closing because babies aren’t profitable enough because no one is having babies because we’re taking all the money… clearly the solution is to ban abortion… but wait, I don’t actually want that to apply to us rich assholes… so state-by-state abortion bans… but wait not enough states are voting to ban abortion…
clearly the solution is to bomb Iran
“Have sex” - Shinzo Abe
Comics like this capture a shared feeling really well. Humor can be a simple way to process complicated times.
aand that’s why The US is declaring war on every other country in the world. “Better to make them like us”
FYI, the planet is not the USA.
I have a solution for the toiletpaper thing: butt showering.
So the least efficient bidet?
Get your body in a routine of popping before you shower and you never have to wipe again. Assuming you clean out your butt in the shower, of course.
That’s what I meant. If your digestion does not kick into overdrive every morning upon smelling fresh coffee, what are you doing with your life?
Showering with more butts?
You take your hot and cold faucet and make the perfect mixture of water that has just the right temperature and then you wash your ass with it.
The wordplays afterwards are optional.
Lot of boomers in the comments continuing to live up to the stereotypes by finding new and infuriating ways to completely miss the point
These anti-natalist types are really fucking stupid. This is literally the case all the damn time in every single era of history. They’re like conservatives talking about a time that never existed. If you don’t want to have kids then that’s your prerogative, but shut with this bullshit moral grandstanding. You’re not morally superior because you don’t want to have kids.
This is literally the case all the damn time in every single era of history.
I don’t know how old you are, so I can’t even guess what your perspective and context on this subject might be. All I know is that at 55 (born in 1970) it sure feels different right now compared to how things have been for most of my lifetime. To me, at least.
And that’s normal, this is the case for literally everybody. Everybody looks back at their youth with nostalgia because that’s when we had the least amounts of responsibilities in life so everything seemed so much simpler and better. However, if you actually go and look back at the past few decades, you’ll see that we’ve had all of the issues in the OP. Riots, wars, genocides, idiotic leaders going rouge, misinformation campaigns, pollution, poverty, and the list goes on and on. Every era has its own unique set of problems and crises that it goes through, and this has been the case for all of history.
Lemme guess, you’re white.
First of all, I’m Arab not white, so don’t assume people’s race. Second of all, white people are literally the people having the least amount of kids out there outside maybe East Asians. So this statement serves nothing besides displaying your racism.
Guess who already had kids and regrets it?! lol
I sure ruffled some feathers with a simple and objective statement lmao
Guessing you feel guilty that you your kids have no future?
I don’t have kids, I’m just stating an obvious truth
I think the beginning minutes of Idiocracy really sum it up.
It really doesn’t and I’m really tired of that argument.
It’s not idiots multiplying. The majority of the voting public in developed countries is left-leaning. The right just know how to gerrymander the system better, and to make their media pundits more vocal
he majority of the voting public in developed countries is left-leaning.
I don’t think gerrymandering alone can account for most EU countries swerving to the right these last few years. Just yesterday Portugal got a center-left and a fascist to the second round for the presidentials. Looking at 3rd, 4th, 5th… yeah there’s gonna be one more EU fascist president.
well, you’re right, there definitely is a growing trend too - but I put that down more to media manipulation of public opinion, than general idiocy spreading more than usual
Have you talked to a fash supporter recently?
Most of em are pretty thick.
Yes I have family. But they always have been this stupid, they’ve just never been this empowered by it before
https://www.yesigiveafig.com/p/part-1-my-life-is-a-lie
tl:dr; to actually afford the bare minimum costs of living in the US, the average family of 4 needs an income of of ~140k.
https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentiles/
Only the top ~29% of households in the US have that much income.
So uh, basically, 7/10ths chance the answer to the question is:
No, not unless you want to raise kids you can’t actually afford to raise, provide with a decent childhood.
Wanted to do the rough math for Zürich out of curiosity. According to this website, the cost of living in Zürich for a family of four is about CHF 8500 and the median gross monthly wage in the region is CHF 7502 (for full-time employment?) according to the bfs, so it’s pretty comfortable with two working parents. Even for the 10th percentile (CHF 4761 / month) it’s probably doable, but you need to factor in that families with young children need to pay for daycare as well. But there are benefits and aids as well, so I’m not exactly sure how liveable that situation really is. Also, taxes might be harsh or not very, i don’t know either. All I know is that sustaining a family of four with both parents earning a wage at the 10th percentile in Zürich is at least very stressful.
Also, I’m kinda sceptical about that cost of living calculation. That would equal around $130’000 a year which is lower than I would have guessed when compared to the $140’000 estimate for the USA, since cost of living in Switzerland and especially in Zürich are generally notoriously high.
TLDR: Most people in Switzerland are relatively well-off.
Interesting!
Would you know where to find just the average/median income of a household, instead of an individual?
That would be closer to the same rough math I’m doing with the US figures.
If you were to try to set this up for another scenario, not a family of 4, but say, a single mom or dad with one kid, well then all the numbers change significantly.
And yeah, the … the whole mess of it is… who actually qualifies for what actual benefits, at what income levels?
A huge problem with the way the US is set up (the article goes into this) is that basically you end up with multiple glass ceilings that you have to break through.
You have to increase your income by substantial, not incremental amounts, for the net income gain to actually offset the benefits you now lose from only slightly breaching some income threshold.
So the whole system actually functions to disincentivize or punish people who… ‘succeed’ more… but not enough more.
Now, take that as your base scenario, and now… you tell me:
How much debt does it make sense for you to go into, to get a college degree, that… may or may not actually result in you either… staying at the same income level, only slightly breaching some threshold/glass ceiling, or perhaps, substantially breaching that threshold/glass ceiling?
Or not be from the us, like most people on earth.
Oh well I mean, I’m sorry I don’t have the relevant data for… every country on earth, my bad.
What do those numbers look like for Chile?
EDIT:
… Also… Millenials and Gen Z are US-centric terms.
Their etymylogical origin derives from describing generations within the US.
What other country on earth has a mass shooting epidemic, predatory student loans and college costs crisis?
I think its reasonable to respond to a comic made by someone from the Los Angeles, that references US issues… with data relevant to the US.
Gen Z was coined by Canadian Douglas Coupland
Is a US dude extrapolating their thing to the whole world, as depicted in the comic lol.
And is a common sentiment in doomeristic older milennials worldwide.
We really need a good USdefaultism or ShitAmericansSay community on the threadiverse lol.
Lemmy sometimes annoys me with all this doomeristic boomer firstworlders.
Yeah it’s not just lemmy but it’s certainly prevalent here. I think the allure is that it can feel ‘sophisticated’ and ‘aware’ to be cynical, but it is annoying.
Especially the anti-natalists OMFG. ‘Having children is like totally selfish and inmoral’ oh jeez shut your trap. Like I get the anti-hyper-natalists because having like 5 children is also completely nutso these days, but. Well anyway.
Tl;Dr: totally, dude
its an undeniable fact that choosing to have children is a act of selfishness. As long as you’re choosing to have said child, you’re the only reason that child exists and you’re doing it because you want it
obviously it’s not immoral though
Yeah this is also stupid because society would collapse if no one had children. Even a lowered birth rate is a calamity for a civilization. You should honestly be thankful everyday that people are brave enough to believe in the hope that their children might live in a better world because that’s the only way you’re going to be able to enjoy the rest of your life.
Yeah this is also stupid because society would collapse if everyone had 4 children. I’m not quite sure why you brought that up.
no one is having children to benefit society.
people have a right to have children to increase their own quality life and that’s perfectly fine. I’m not denying the continuation of a race depends on procreation, but that’s not an intelligent beings primary rationale
Don’t try to say they’re doing it for me, it’s delusional to think anyone is having a child for anyone else but themselves. (as long as they chose to have the child)
I think it’s perfectly deniable that it’s selfish if you believe your children would have more valuable existences if they existed than if they didn’t, and there’s some value in their lives. You do things because you decided to do them, not necessarily because they benefit you – unless you believe you can trivially reduce all motivation to selfishness (which then reduces to the concept of selfishness to something so trite as to be meaningless)
Antinatalists are the most annoying kind, with their cheap ass edgy morality that at the end of the day, is just a means to try and feel superior, somehow, to other people.
Demograpic collapse is way more scary than any of those SciFi depictions of overcrowded cities… no doubt in under developed countries there is a real problem with that, but in so much the rest of the world, the problem is literally the opposite, people are getting old and the each new generation has to carry a weight that is not theirs, things like retirement will become impossible.
Ya know there’s enough people eager to come move to all these developed countries if they would just welcome them in. Solving two problems at once.
You two are just delusional. Open your eyes. But then people on lemmy tend to be on the older side, so there’s a good chance, you just don’t want to hear how you fucked over the younger generations.
We need to stop the intergenerational fighting and unite against the real enemy: neoliberal capitalism.
I’m 21
I’m the younger generation.
I do wonder what shitfuck will be for me when I graduate college, but my parents and grandparents also had to live trough shit, poverty, pinochet, worry of nuclear war, disease and whatnot, and if they choose to not have kids, well… I wouldnt exist lol, and my life is way more healtly and comfortable than the ones they did have, things have improved in spite of all the shitfuckery of the XX century, and they will keep improving overall, and on average trough the century (i don’t say there won’t be dips) because humans just want to live better.
Also, greetings from Chile.
Oh hey, my grandmother was Chilean. Always wanted to visit but never managed it yet. Greetings from UK lol
Go fuck yourself. I recycle, I grow a lot of veg, keep my own chickens, air source heat pump and PV and all that jazz, I don’t drive, I vote for socialised policies and infra investments. What do you do? Useless sniping arse
Have a kid.
18 years from now: “Good luck in the water wars, son”
I’m too nice to do that to someone.
Are ya winning, son?
My siblings’ kids are all angry at the hubris their parents had to birth them. I love them and get it, but it’s a hell of a lot more complicated than that and nihilism is so 2005. I think. I was pretty dissociated that year but I had a professor who talked about it a lot according to dissociated me’s notes.
My wife and I had ours in 2024. I’ve always felt that it was my purpose to be an amazing dad to someone, because I didn’t really have one.
So I went ahead and became an amazing dad. I’m righting so many wrongs, healing, learning from and teaching myself, my wife and those around me, blah blah blah. There is just that much more love in the world and I feel so much more capable than I did before.
Will my little one start asking the hard questions in 10-15 yrs?
Probably. But they won’t be alone.
I am willing to bet that they won’t be too far off from the ones I was asking at that age. Not only does little one have 2 committed, full-time, safe parents – I also feel 100x more prepared to follow those inquiries than any adult figure that was in my life was when I was doing the asking. Yes, we are lucky. IMO it behooves the lucky ones to put in this work.
“Nihilism” is the perfect descriptor for this flavor of antinatalism. I do get where it’s coming from (because, believe me, we have struggles). And yeah, don’t have a kid who you know won’t be supported – it’s irresponsible. But don’t pretend you’re better off because of a choice we made for ourselves.
I don’t feel like we’re even close to a stage where it’s ok to just throw up our hands, turn away, and let the light die out. We need a turning towards and inwards to make a better place, even if the struggles are uncomfortable.
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My siblings’ kids are all angry at the hubris their parents had to birth them.
It’s a weird thing to be angry about. They now have agency over the world they live in. If they hate it, they can change it. That’s an opportunity given to vanishingly few life forms on the planet.
Oh, yeah? How? They are as powerless as you and me. And looking at the past couple of decades, shit is going downhill fast.
They are as powerless as you and me.
Educated, able bodies, and socially conscious populations have enormous revolutionary potential.
That’s just a fancy way of saying they’re teenagers.
Most of these points only apply to the US
Don’t you know USA is one of the 4 country in the world? The other 3 is China, Russia, and Europe.
You forgot Africa and all the Mexican countries.
Everyone forgets Africa.
It’s the biggest country in the world after all!
Why worry about Papua new guinea or wherever you are from@
I dunno. Housing is pretty bad in Denmark, and things are generally becoming less affordable.
Sure, but we still have toilet paper and no mass shootings.
The toilet paper thing was so stupid. There was plenty available, but they didn’t want to sell it in stores because it was made for commercial use. At the same time they didn’t want to increase production for household supply since that would cost money and they wanted to use the shortage as an excuse to raise prices.
We had that here too. For a week. Then it all sorted itself out. Mostly because people got their panic buying out of their system and everything returned to normal.
The problem wasn’t panic buying, at least not after the first rush. It was that demand for home use went up past the ability to supply during lockdown. Shifting part of the commercial supply to the grocery stores would have solved it immediately.
The no mass shootings part certainly is a plus.
Yeah, the US! That’s the big ball in the picture!
Sort of crazy to look at the birth rates in, like, the DRC or Afghanistan and conclude they must have done everything right.
America can have birth rates on par with Pakistan and Somalia if they just obliterate access to birth control and end all public education. Concentrate large numbers of American teenagers into ghettos and refuge camps where there’s nothing better to do than fuck. Guaranteed you’ll get another baby boom inside ten months.
They’re way ahead of you on that. Education has become laughable and they have ICE concen… detention centers now.
Everything I’ve heard about these camps suggest ICE agents are free to sexually assault the detainees.
Gotta wonder what it says if the women in these camps suddenly have a higher pregnancy rate than their unincarcerated neighbors. I guess people are just really optimistic about the future in there?
The problem is not the things mentioned, but the fact that we had these and now we have decided that we don’t need it
Having children demonstrates one of two things: wealth, or intelligence.
On one hand, if you can afford to overcome the obstacles, children seem like a good idea, usually from family wealth, since nobody is going to become wealthy. You’re either born into it, or you’re extremely lucky and you win the lotto or something, which is so unlikely it’s hardly worth mentioning.
On the other hand, if you’re too dumb to know how fucked we all are, or you’re too dumb to use protection in some form… Well. Yay kids? Idk.
Everyone with somewhere close to an “average” IQ, or better, who isn’t part of the upper class with family wealth, is basically represented here.
Maybe I am wealthy…
