- cross-posted to:
- linux@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- linux@programming.dev
I know this might be a couple months old, but I didn’t know we already passed 4%.
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I don’t think Microsoft (or Apple) want people to have personal computers anymore in the way that PCs have historically existed. That is to say, they don’t want your computer capable of running arbitrary code of your choosing. They don’t want your computer to have the potential to do everything, to run everything, to make anything.
They want to control and lock down all aspects of your machine and what it can do, retain ownership of hardware via software licenses, and monetize every click and keystroke.
Microsoft doesn’t want you to have a functional computer anymore, they want you to have a dummy terminal that runs Office 365 and Copilot.
They want PCs that work like smartphones, with apps completely self contained and unmodifiable, where the OS is a black box that no one but them can see in to.
Smartphones are actually a good window into what computers in general would have been like had the IBM bios not been reverse engineered and survived a bunch of legal challenges.
You’ll own nothing and you’ll be happy - Ida Auken
I think if it was up to them, and latency was low enough, they probably would have pushed some kind of “fully remote convertible laptop” where they literally own everything you do in a cloud, I don’t even want to search if this is a thing that exist already
We’ve been most of the way their for a long while with thin clients. They have just enough computational capacity to connect to someone else infrastructure. Its also how schools use Chromebooks for the most part too
Now that we don’t have to pay for any of the infrastructure, it turns out that mainframes and timesharing is awesome. Can we go back to that please? - Silicon Valley, 2024
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This is EXACTLY right.
They are dividing users into two groups. Unintelligent users who run Windows or MacOS in an extremely controlled limited way with AI assisting and monitoring everything remotely and reporting it back to the mothership…
Or people who are above an IQ of 85 and willing to learn to use Linux.
You’re welcome guys. I installed Linux on an iMac yesterday. It was all me.
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Yes those can be a pain. Might be worth to give it a try though before ruling it out entirely. I did manage to get my old (non-mac) laptop working that had the combined intel and nvidia gpus that were a pain.
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I’ve had LMDE on a USB stick for a few months now, waiting for the right time to boot it up on my wife’s PC, and she finally agreed to try it tonight. Cross your fingers, boys; we may soon have another convert.
If she doesn’t like it, find a new wife!
/r/relationship_advice is leaking.
Priorities.
My wife struggles with tech, she had such a hard time with windows, and the slowness of it was making her wxperience worse. I put GNOME DE on her old laptop, she can be autonomous now
What’s your review of LMDE over Debian? I recently took the Linux desktop jump recently and started with Linux Mint.
I really didn’t like the Mint desktop as it seemed very dated, so I’ve switched to Debian/KDE. It was only much later that I realized how easy it would have been to just customize my window manager instead of getting a different distro. Having said that, I’m really digging Debian in spite of Nvidia issues being a headache, and Debian’s glacial update pace making me look longingly at Arch.
I also didn’t like the way Mint looked/felt, even though I’m aware of its popularity and good reputation.
I’m on Pop!_OS which is mostly a GNOME desktop, but they do add [remove] features and it’s very smooth and clean. I guess this is one of the miracles of “linux” where we can all be using “linux” but with 1500 different varieties.
I love pop os.
Yeah, I’ve heard really good things about Pop!_OS, especially for Windows migrants.
Funny enough, if you “need it to look like windows 7” Mint looks pretty close.
but yes, prior to October my house was 5 windows PCs. A couple weeks ago it was officially 5 Pop machines. No prior Linux experience, except for copy-paste setup of a pihole.
I am so happy for you two!
Just a reminder to take the data in that site with a grain of salt. I used to share them a lot, but then decided to read more about their methodology, and turns out it’s mostly a black box, so they may be subject to several kinds of biases, and we can’t even know. For example, we don’t know which sites use their analytics and if there’s a geographical bias. We also don’t know how their scripts work and how the data is collected from devices. It would be nice if we had more sources of marketshare data to compare
For sure, I wish they gave us more data. The trend seems to be going up so that’s nice.
Glad for Linux going up, but the numbers should really come from Windows more than from MacOS.
How much of this is regular people just not buying new computers anymore?
A lot of households that used to have had a laptop for each person have replaced those devices with phones and tablets. They weren’t using Linux, so by removing them Linux market share would go up even if it hasn’t actually grown.
Last I checked, Linux users also use phones.
I think the argument is that as less people have desktops and laptops, the only people left will be more technical (otherwise they’d just use a phone or tablet). The more technical people are also likely to use Linux. So as non-technical people move to tablets and phones, technical people make up a larger share of laptop/desktop users.
Three cheers for King Torvalds and Lord Gaben!
Yes, this was big news all over Lemmy when it happened.
Thanks for bringing it up though! Not everyone might have known that.
Then immediately went down to 3.5% when people realised it still doesn’t work properly lol
Wym I’ve recently started using Linux and I’ve had exactly one issue and it was entirely my lack of knowledge and took like 5 mins to fix.
yeah, linux is super usable for every day shit, and even gaming now. I havent had a significant problem in years, and i’m not a sysadmin or something that knows the mystic ways of the commandline or anything. I’m just a random idiot
How much of this is decline at the expense of Windows 11, due to Steam lowering barriers to entry, fatigue with Windows’ hard selling, and/or extending the useful like of hardware that W11 abandoned.
Copilot / Recall was the last straw for me. My only relationship with Microsoft for the last 10 years has been, “how much more of Microsoft’s sh*t am I willing to put up with?”
I 100% put money on the fact that linuxes surge in popularity and usability is 100% because Valve, a multi-billion dollar company, stepped in and started dragging it forward in ways that the fractuous nature of the community never could.
Windows 11 being a spytastic invasive dogpile was just extra fuel on the fire.
Little bit of everything I think. I personally have been getting tired of Microsoft pulling their shit, but without Valve making compatibility so simple for their launcher it would make it a much harder sell.
The fuckery Microsoft has been doing with trying to outright trick people into signing in to the OS with a Microsoft account and using things like OneDrive combined with just how good Proton has gotten pushed me to make the switch full time a year or so ago for my personal usage.
Nearly zero. Gamers make up less than a rounding error of desktop installs.
Wut? It’s an industry bigger than football and TV and film combined! Somebody’s getting all those games and they have to be played on something too.
I know it technically counts and all, but it bothers me that “mobile” is included in “video games”. Mobile “games” are clickbaits and doomscrolls and it seems weird to compare them in the same graph as Nintendo/PC etc.
HOWEVER - in terms of REVENUE there is no denying how much money they make on mobile games! Probably due in part to the clickbait/doomscroll nature of them.
I know it technically counts and all, but it bothers me that “mobile” is included in “video games”. Mobile “games” are clickbaits and doomscrolls and it seems weird to compare them in the same graph as Nintendo/PC etc.
I didn’t post this graphic for the mobile and console games. I posted it because of the claim that PC games are “an industry bigger than football and TV and film combined!” USD 45Bn is big but not bigger than football and TV and film combined. The combined PC games revenue is about half of Disney’s yearly revenue.
Gamers do, the vast majority of which are mobile gamers. Followed by console gamers and then PC gaming which makes up less 15% of industry revenue.
Is less than
Percentages are the easiest statistical figure to bullshit. Just like it happens with “Linux desktop is only 4%”. We are then talking about over a hundred million PCs. PC gaming is 15% means that PC gamers are several hundred millions of devices. Sure, it is less than mobile gaming. But less doesn’t mean irrelevant, and much less a rounding error. You don’t call a fifth of the market that expends almost a quarter of the revenue a rounding error.
Steam surveys would like to have a word
With you, maybe.
They consistently show that several percent of gamers are using Steam on Linux
Yup. Gaming was one of the few things that kept me from switching to Linux. Then, I found out about Proton on Steam.
First off, I DO NOT count ChromeOS, but whatever.
Secondly, when is 18% of anything “dominant”??? The fuck? Arstechnica back up off the pipe.
They probably mean of Linux flavored ps coverage.
(I’m aware Mac is very different than Linux, but it is more closely grouped with Linux than Windows)
It’s more BSD than anything.
Linux founder Linus Torvalds, for example, has suggested that a lack of a standardized desktop that goes across all Linux distros has held back Linux adoption on desktop.
Yeah. Well, in on Linux in large part because of the diversity, choice, and options. If I wanted a monolithic, incestuous lock-in culture, I’d be on Windows, or a Mac.
Linux may have been simply making an observation, not a judgment, but fuck monocultures.
To much diversity of options and choices are just as bad and damaging as having none at all.
But how much is too much? Diversity is a great thing for people, makes technology less authoritative and more inclusive.
Authorative drive is what makes software more inclusive. It can focus the resources and attention where its needed, to create a superior product. Linus being a bulldog with the Kernel is proof enough with that.
Design by commitee does not make things more inclusive. It just leads to people not getting their way, having a huff, and screaming “I’M GOING TO FORK THIS AND GO MAKE MY OWN VERSION, WITH BLACKJACK, AND HOOKERS!”, and now you have two teams doing the same thing, and being lesser due to the split dev time and attention. and will probably lead to more forks, and more splits of teams.
Doesnt mean it has to be monolithic/monoculture. but a single product that serves 80% of everyones wants and desires is a better, superior product to one that tries to cater to and serve 100% to each, different individual.
and most people wont even notice the 20% difference in their everyday usage and life. They just get told something, or get a wrong idea, and are hard pressed to give it up cause humans can rarely admit their own wrong.
Authorative drive is what makes software more inclusive. It can focus the resources and attention where its needed,
Where a particular groups think it’s needed.
Let’s take some examples. In the linux world, there are multiple DEs, with different GUIs and approaches on how to interact with a computer. People used to the windows look might feel better and be more productive in KDE, while people who are more used to phones might prefer GNOME. There are DEs that are very lightweight with resources, so that people with older machines aren’t left out, and there are people who don’t even like DEs at all, who might prefer something like i3. In the end, everyone can have something to run on their machines, and which they will feel more comfortable with, instead of a particular group of people deciding how someone should interact with a computer, and people having to use it the way they want, whether they like it or not.
Doesnt mean it has to be monolithic/monoculture. but a single product that serves 80% of everyones wants and desires is a better, superior product to one that tries to cater to and serve 100% to each, different individual.
I agree with that, and maybe we’re talking about different things? The kind of diversity I mention is multiple projects aiming at 80% of different people, but coexisting.
fuck monocultures.
I have to disagree. We can’t have too many monocultures.
I’m thinking this comes from the consideration of taking imagery at the root of people’s brains when they hear Linux. Reiterating elements of the Windows or Mac UI over the decades, even if they had small visual changes, enable a significantly large population of the world to imagine the desktop even just while mentioned in a passing. Anyone that doesn’t use either of these OSes at least can have a basic imagery popping up about it due to constant advertising of the desktop via direct ads, support pages, tech websites using generic desktop images, screen shares, etc.
Linux is wild west in this regard. Everyone knows how Windows or MacOS looks like thanks to their abundant copies of descriptive bounty posters, but only other Linux users are familiar with other Linux desktops and that is usually as the names of fellow bounty hunters.
Yeah. When I think of Linux, I think of the terminal. It’s the only constant over the years.
My septagenarian father thinks Linux looks like Linux Mint, because that’s what I first set up for him, and that’s what I walked him through installing on a new computer.
Viva la difference.
Played csgo last night and this guy brought up he was playing on Linux Mint. Lfg, I was so happy.
I switched over to Fedora a number of months ago and switched to plasma a few weeks ago. 0 complaints on any game I’ve played between halo, cyber punk, doom, and forza.
seems I’m too boomer for this shit, apparently phones count as “personal computers”.
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/
look at this graph and tell me that mac os is “dominant”.
(the numbers for those who don’t want to click the link)
Android = 43.86%
Windows = 27.97%
iOS = 17.8%
OS X = 5.64% (when did they stop calling it mac os?)
unknown = 1.96%
Linux = 1.44% (we’re still last place guys!)
It’s cool and all, but I’m surprised it’s not 10% at this point. Microsoft is shitting in their customers mouth and Apple is a luxury brand at this point.
Because every computer bought by the average human being, has Windows on it.
Yeah that’s true.
4% is high considering there are probably more corporate desktops tham personal ones
Institutuonals like governments and businesses do embrace Linux, too, and I don’t find many regular users running Linux on their machine for anything but IT work
For desktop or everything else. Because if its:
Web Servers, Supercomputers, Android Smartphones, Smart TVs, Network Routers, Network Switches, Embedded Devices, IoT Devices, NAS (Network-Attached Storage) Devices, Raspberry Pi, Smartwatches, Home Automation Devices, Google Chromebooks, Set-top Boxes, Drones, Digital Signage Devices, 3D Printers, Medical Devices, ATM Machines, Point of Sale (POS) Devices, Digital Cameras, Gaming Consoles, Virtual Private Servers (VPS), Automotive Infotainment Devices, Mainframes, Telecommunications Equipment, Scientific Research Equipment, Security Devices, Cloud Servers, Network Firewalls, Storage Area Networks (SAN), Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) Devices, Customer Relationship Management (CRM) Devices, Big Data Analytics Devices, Machine Learning Devices, Artificial Intelligence Devices, Financial Trading Devices, Air Traffic Control Devices, Spacecraft Control Devices, Weather Forecasting Devices, Broadcast Automation Devices, Railway Signaling Devices, Electric Grid Control Devices, Smart Meters, E-Readers, Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging Stations, Robotics Devices
then Linux (or some kind of *Nix system) is probably what is running it. The only market share I dont see is desktop.
I don’t have any hard numbers, only what I have seen out in the world. But a good number of POS systems, embedded things like MRI machines, tire balancers in mechanics shops and ATMs run some flavor of embedded Windows.
It is not nearly as huge as *nix is, but it is not exactly uncommon either.
“dominance”… You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means
