- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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The damage goes beyond the economic, it shattered the UK’s soft power. Without that soft power the UK was left at a disadvantage at every negotiating table.
Further, one could argue that the fracturing of UK/EU relations paved the way to today’s war in Europe, as almost all attention was pulled onto Brexit and none was given towards declawing Russia.
If there were any real justice in the UK, Farage and the brexiteers would all be up in front of a judge on a charge of treason. That they lied before is forgivable (they may well have believed their lies), but that many continue to do so now given the breadth and depth of evidence is beyond remotion.
IOW: Brexiteer = MUGA = Make UK Great Again
Right.
So HOW IN FUCK’S NAME is it that Nigel Farage and his party are leading the polls? You know, the very same Nigel Farage who was pushing the lie and admitted on television the very morning after the referendum that it was a lie?! Help me make sense of this, dear UK!
Truth is we’re all screeching baboons. We just covered our asses with garment. We’re generous and caring in small groups but incredible stupid and distrustful in large numbers.
“Democracy is by the people, for the people.but the people are retarded”
given his party are trying to:
- piss off pensioners by flip-flopping on the triple lock
- piss off almost all minorities by saying they’re not really british, even with settled status
- piss off white van man by having 50% of kids go to trade school to shortly take all their business
- piss off former tories by ripping up the ECHR
- piss off almost everyone disabled, gay or diverse in any other way by ripping up the equality act
I expect reform support to skyrocket.
Because don’t you know that boat people are the cause of all our problems, and we’ll be able to save the NHS only if we lower taxes, and if only we got right of the Human Rights Act, we’d be able to save the sainted homeless veterans.
It was never about economic stats, right? If the British public poured over graphs and forecasts, they would not have voted for Brexit.
In other words, if you sent this report back in time, I’m not sure it would make a difference. It’s all about personal anxieties and feels.
I’m not really disagreeing but there was also a big lie in the campaign putting out “we send the EU £50million a week. Let’s fund our NHS instead” some people definitely bought into the nonsense.
*350
Boris’ Bus of Lies with the caption is even in the thumbnail
Amazing that none of them looked into this and realised we actually got more back.
At the time I worked with a man from north Wales, who voted Brexit cause south Wales got the bulk of the money assigned to Wales. Make that make sense.
None of them looked into it because facts don’t matter to far-right populists and the sheep voting for them. They just make up shit that fits their simple narrative of the moment and makes people angry. And when (not if) it is debunked as a blatant lie later on, they have already captured their audience with ten new lies, so the implosion of all the older lies won’t register with them.
I get that perverted ‘logic’. What confounds me is that so many people seem to be falling for this shit. I had a more optimistic idea of people’s intelligence on average. And: I don’t like what this finding means for future-proofing our democracies, if we’re going to save those.
idk I feel like if you can fit it on a chart with red bits, it’d work ok.
might need a compoface newscaster as well
Would it, though? Maybe things were different in the UK, but in ~2017 it felt like social media had a tight grip on folks in the US, not newscasters, and from my distant observation it seems like that was a big factor for Brexit.
maybe next time dont listen to russian propaganda.
everything bad in the world ever is Russia! Russia! Russia!
The ties were pretty clear with the Brexit propaganda campaign.
As are the ties with other far right movements around the world.
Russia’s more than happy to throw gas on the fire, for sure.
But they didn’t start it. They’re taking advantage of the failures of capitalist neoliberalism in the West for their own advantage, but - and this is crucial - the existence of those failures is not something paranoia about Russia can address.
In the US, you literally had people from the Democratic party discussing how BLM was a Russian front, because the Russians were happy to show how the US treated people. But Russia didn’t put those racist cops, Russia didn’t give them immunity - Russia didn’t make the US have the world’s largest prison population that’s overwhelmingly minority.
You don’t want Brexit, don’t have wealth gaps and massive housing costs so people can be pushed to blame their shitty lives on Polish immigrants.
Look here is one of their shills now.
Maybe russia should stop being the bad guy. Easy as that
That’s one way to put it.
Try this: “Russia is bad for this world”
Are you suggesting Russia should be destroyed?
Specifically Russian leadership. Without a doubt. Try this: “Putin is bad for Russia”
Man, sometimes I hate internet discourse, everything is hyperbole all the time and the only recognized positions are extremes.
“maybe next time dont listen to russian propaganda.” - “You think […] Brexit only exists because of Russia?”
“Russia is bad for this world” - “Are you suggesting Russia should be destroyed?”It’s so draining.
totally agree. they’re bad faith actors. said my piece, but not for his benefit. now i block him.
Yeah, almost as draining as hearing idiots claim that everything is part of a huge Russian plot, so they don’t have to actually change their failing strategies.
It’s been 10 years now and you chuckleheads are still doing it.
And again jumping on shit nobody here said or even insinuated.
Someone just mentions that Brits should not have listened to Russian propaganda concerning Brexit and you immediately start this entire script fighting one strawman after another, somehow ending up in american politics for fucks sake.
Nobody said it was only due to propaganda, nobody even said it was mainly due to propaganda, nobody said that Russia should be destroyed.
Calm down mate, take a breather and stop fighting things you just imagine that other people are saying, because they’re not.
This ‘I’m so tired of internet discourse’ act is a classic move to shut down a conversation you’re losing. You’re conflating a critique of a toxic leadership with a call for destruction because you can’t actually defend Putin’s record. Russia’s military is an international embarrassment and its leadership is a global parasite; those aren’t ‘extreme positions,’ they’re the consensus of anyone not on the Kremlin’s payroll. You aren’t ‘drained’—you’re just out of arguments.Dude, I’m not the person you were responding to and I’m on your side in this?
having listened to enough NAFO chickenhawks talk about how Russia is “orcs” who have no respect for human life while they celebrate the deaths of conscripts from their couch, you might want to be specific about that in the future
Well I never mentioned destroying anyone so I didn’t think I needed to specify what needed to be destroyed until that was brought up.
Try this: “Russia is bad for this world”
is what I was responding to
I suggest russia china india and america and canada should be decolonised and balcanised
Balkanized.
Lol what? You think that because Russia spread some money around Brexit only exists because of Russia?
It’s like the idiots in the US that ignore 70 million people voted for Trump, and want to pretend the only reason for that is that Russia spent $100,000 on Facebook ads. Because they don’t want to address the actual problems that’s destroying their societies. Much easier to just claim it’s all Putler or something.
no one said any of that.
Why did Russia bother doing anything if it would’ve happened regardless apparently?
To aid it and make it worse?
The West pretty much showed to Russia in the 1990s and 2000s that it was going to consider international relations a zero sum game. So Russia is of course going to work to make the problems the US and UK have worse, as the US has done with Russia.
The United Kingdom, merely described as an “extraterritorial floating base of the U.S.”, should be cut off from the European Union.
– Foundations of Geopolitics (1997) by Aleksandr Dugin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
Also see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_Brexit_referendum
Do you not understand that just because something is to Russia’s advantage, and Russia wants it to happen, does not mean that Russia can make it happen?
If you think Brexit was to the benefit of Russia, and you oppose Russia’s government (as you should) - OK. Then why wouldn’t you want to address the root causes that are powering anti-EU parties all over? Take away the fuel.
Who could have thought that separating yourself from one of the top 3 economies in the world would have negative consequences?
Literally can ot interact with this site. Get a pop up about push notifications, No button doesn’t respond. Then another pop up. Site’s broken. And I’m really sick of wrestling with an entire Internet that’s the same.
Firefox + uBlock Origin on Android here. The site works alright.
This leaves Britain as a rare modern case study: a rich country that deliberately raised barriers to trade and cooperation and paid the price.
I’m not convinced yet. Please, would another country with an even bigger GDP deliberately raise barriers to trade and cooperation?
Hold my bear…
-TrumpI wish he had a bear. It might maul him.
People say it’s a big, beautiful bear!
Why do I get the feeling this was pumped out by an Abominable Intelligence?
I have no idea if it is, it’s the first result of an image-search for “Trump russian bear”.
Following the Link it gives the source as “Victor Juhasz for Rolling Stone”. I’m too much a developer to knowingly dirty my hands with AI.
Trump can’t spell, I totally didn’t make a typo!
A man who stands by his typos is worthy of my friendship.
Didn’t they try to make him hold an eagle, once?
He stared at the sun during the eclipse.
I wish someone had given him gold plated binoculars.
We should try again just to be sure
Quiet, you
It is also a flashing red warning to any country flirting with economic nationalism, trade wars or the fantasy that sovereignty can replace integration.
I don’t think any other country would be so stu-… Oh, wait a second.
Cambridge Analytica comes for us all.
Canada! Run for it!
But the rich are getting richer, and that was the plan all along!
Why aren’t the pro-brexit people being shamed? Stripped of their wealth and made to spend the rest of their miserable lives doing community service?
The people too lazy to vote for remain also deserve some of the blame
uh, because it was a referendum of the people and 17 million xenophobic idiots voted for it.
I’m beginning to think there is a problem with democracy.
It’s even darker than that - a lot of the leave votes were elderly folks who voted how their newspapers told them to (daily fail was a big “LEAVE” proponent).
Those people are, mostly, dead or trapped in the later stages of dementia now.
17 million voters of 60 something million voted for it. The other quarter or so of the population that voted, voted Remain. And on the basis of that quarter of the population that voted, we left. It’s ridiculous, embarrassing, stupid as shooting yourself in the foot.
True, but also the dimwits who didn’t vote at all only discovered their moral superiority the day AFTER the vote.
If enough people do something wrong, it becomes right.
Eat more shit, billions of flies can’t be wrong!
That sounds like some justification right out of the Nuremberg trial.
I’m not defending that way of thinking, it just seems to be what often happens.
As an example, it took a lot of work to limit secondhand smoking in my country. I remember in the 90’s when cars and houses were sometimes thick with smoke, even with kids present, and even though people already knew the risks of secondhand smoking. People thought it was bullshit that they weren’t allowed to smoke inside bars and restaurants, on the train or while waiting for public transport. Everyone knew that it was wrong to subject other people to secondhand smoke but to a lot of people it was just the way of life, and therefore right.
I can’t even remember the last time I saw someone smoke in public, and I think most people would consider it unacceptable to smoke around children, but it has taken decades to get to this point.
I guess because most of them have taken their cash and moved away (like this Dyson guy for example)
You accidentally spelled “this twat guy…” wrong ;-)
Because the pro-brexit people run the propaganda machines.
Brexit was organic from Boomers in pubs with their anti European jingoism. They thoroughly fucked anyone under 40.
For a decade, Brexit’s defenders have insisted the warnings were exaggerated and the pain temporary. The latest evidence shows the opposite. Brexit hasn’t been a one-off hit followed by recovery – it has quietly, relentlessly drained the UK economy year after year.
The headline numbers are brutal. UK GDP is now 6–8 per cent smaller than it would have been by 2025 – worse than forecast, not better. That is a permanent loss of national income, not a blip.
Investment has collapsed. UK business investment is 18 per cent lower than in comparable economies, as firms put money on hold or moved it elsewhere. Employment and productivity are both around 4 per cent lower, locking in weaker wage growth and lower living standards.
And as a consequence, people will elect Reform at the next general election.
Yup. Cause if policy born of nationalism and bigotry couldn’t solve our problems the first time around, surely we just weren’t using enough of it. /s
It’s easier to blame immigrants and people on benefits for the problems in the economy, than realise the real problem is the leaches at the top sucking away every spare penny the working class makes.
The landlords, the executives, the millionaires, the billionaires - where do people think their money comes from?
Everything costs more, but not because it actually costs more to make - but because the profits must always go up to fuel the hoards of the wealthy.
Why are landlords so hated? Renting isn’t always a bad option.
Renting itself isn’t a bad concept, but as @craipz@feddit.org it represents a tax on the poor.
Homes are becoming increasingly expensive and harder to buy in the first place, and it is no help when landlords are buying them to rent, or buying the land to build apartments on.
Its worth noting in some cities even renting is getting more difficult, as landlords pivot towards student accommodations - which they can charge a pretty penny per room for.
The modern landlord represents the rich very directly using their money to screw over the poor.
Because they symbolize the privatization of a basic human right. Because rent is a “poor peoples tax” - and most people are poor, all things considered. You get the gist. Also: For most people, renting isn’t an option - it’s the only option.
Yeah, if its the only option then it’s bad, but the convenience isn’t too be underestimated. I rented when I was in Uni, didn’t even consider buying at that point. Didn’t want to commit that much money to a city i didn’t know if I wanted to live in.
it’s not renting that’s being criticized here; it’s specifically landlords.
renting is perfectly fine.
what is not fine, is that a public necessity is tied to a private individual or company that can charge whatever they want.
that last part is the problem.
vienna often gets cited as a notable example for large scale, affordable public housing projects, and while that is fair, the reason those are affordable, is because they are owned by the public, i.e. the city of vienna.
THAT’S how rent is supposed to work: for the people, by the people.
it’s how a society gets affordable housing, not this price gouging nonsense that neoliberal politics has popularized…
But then the problem isn’t landlords, it’s policy.
Put the blame where it should be, the people voting for stupid policy.
Couldn’t agree more. Paying some amount of money for upkeep and so forth makes sense, be it for your own home or for one you don’t own. Paying rent just to make someone else rich(er) should not be a thing in the first place in my opinion, because then the basic function changes from providing shelter to generating as much profit as possible. In every major city this problem is quite apparent: Exploding rents, vacant apartment complexes that only exist as speculation objects, owners not spending anything on maintenance because short term profits are more important than long term sustainability. Man, I could go on, but my mood tanked enough as it is haha
Most folks I talk to have at least one bad landlord experience.
Most folks I talk to have zero good landlord experiences.
Most people have at least one bad experience of anything tbf.
Yeah, but a bunch of extremely rich people made a lot of money.
Yeah no shit sherlock
And everyone with half a brain cell has been warning of exactly this since when this Brexit madness started.
PROJECT FEAR!!!
I’ve been referring to supporters of such things as “having 2 brain cells fighting for 3rd place”, I may have overestimated.
They have 2 brain cells
They’re both thinking they shouldn’t work harder than the other
One of them is an imaginary friend of the other
why doesn’t anyone get on TV and tell the ppl this? why is there no concerted pushback against the propaganda?
The people you want to tell say “Brexit wasn’t done properly”.
The same people, probably, that say Corbyn would have ruined the economy, and when pushed say “well it’s obvious isn’t it”.
Who are you going to tell it to, the people who were already stupid enough to yeet themselves out of the EU ?
yes. no matter what, somehow the gov needs to deliver the populace from a propaganda assault.
Is the propaganda about this still there? Or just not a topic anymore in general?
it’s still around, tho not as heightened since the damage is done.
the ppl need to be de-programmed tho, so showcasing to everyone how it failed, who it benefits, would be wise imo.
Are you saying they should have stayed with EU?
Genuine question, asking to understand.
Yes indeed.
Ah, ok. What’s the propaganda though? Are there people actually saying UK should be separate from the EU?
Many people, yes. Primarily politicians and businessmen looking to pilfer the UK.
Brexit and nationalism are also stoked online by Russia.
How does separating from the EU help business men pilfer the UK? Is it because they aren’t held responsible by EU standards anymore?
I wonder what’s up with Russia and it’s propaganda. I keep hearing this often, is it really that pervasive?
Deregulation and privatization, yeah. Less interference in the wealthy solidifying power and control over sectors.
Russian propaganda is probably the most advanced in the world at this point. they weaponized social media before anyone else.
This chap was the leader of Reform, Nigel ‘Mr Brexit’ Farage’s party, in Wales and wasn’t careful enough to cover the source of his ‘encouragement’ to repeat pro-Russian talking points. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c891403eddet
That they tried to get a foothold here via this useful idiot is very worrying. He got off lightly with that prison sentence; treason used to carry the death penalty and taking foreign money to fluff another state while also claiming to represent the constituents who voted for you is easily read as treasonous. I’d like to think those constituents are a little more informed now but it wouldn’t be a surprise to see his replacement voted in at the next election.
why is there no concerted pushback against the propaganda?
Excellent, keep going. Almost there!
this just isn’t a helpful comment.
even if you’re implying conspiracy, surely not EVERYONE would be on board, yet still, nothing.
The people who own the TV content are pushing the propaganda. That’s why.
I don’t doubt that, but at the same time it’s hard for me to accept that every avenue to reach the populace has been so completely co-opted in the UK.
There’s the social media angle, which theoretically would be individuals creating content not owned by billionaires.
That’s where Cambridge Analytica comes in to close the gap. If there’s another avenue (besides local face-to-face meetings) we’d love to hear it.
Nah ,stupid people do stupid things ,cant chance that
i don’t think doing nothing has worked out very well XD
